services wanted Stuck In A Quagmire

[Augie Coombs]

Long story short - I have been trying to get a fairly simple database made for a small manufacturing operation. We need normal stuff like inventory control, contact management, invoicing etc.. There are some "custom" features to to with quality control processes, export documentation and web ordering interface.

In the past two years I have hired a developer who was not professional and unable to bring the project to a conclusion and another developer who seems capable when I can get ahold of him but has had some personal crises which have limited his ability to get work done promptly. He is a terrible communicator and leaves me wondering what is happening for weeks at a time. The database is looks almost done but the most recent version he sent me has so many bugs it is almost unuseable. He presented it as a finished product we could debug and add to as needed but it is really not at that point. I have been waiting for months for this so it is really disappointing that so little QC has been done.

Recently I have been in contact with the owner of the company who I hired to build a new website and who has been very nice to deal with. He informed me that most of what I am after could easily be found in an off the shelf solution which makes sense as our business is a fairly run of the mill operation. He has recommended "Spire" and given me a price of $6000. I have already spent over 15 grand on my custom filemaker "solution", spent countless hours harassing the developer(s) trying to get things done and discussing what needs doing. I have also spent a lot of time putting data into the database. If I jump ship now all this will be lost. None the less I am tempted, I am not sure when the database will be finished and useable and what kind of support I would get if I had a major time sensitive issue with it.
 

Should I use Spire? Should I hire yet another FM developer? Should I give this guy a chance to get his life in order?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Fitch]

I found what I think is the Spire website. Hadn't heard of it before. It looks like it has the features you described. I couldn't find any screen shots, which bothers me. It is Windows-only. They do have a free trial, though, so you'll definitely want to do that before you decide, and if possible talk to some current customers.

You should find out what options it has for importing data, and what the cost will be for assistance with that. Maybe you won't have to lose that piece of it. Will your web developer support you? Keep in mind he's probably making a commission on Spire.

You say "fairly simple database" and then you say: inventory control, contact management, invoicing, quality control processes, export documentation and web ordering interface. Doesn't sound so simple to me! If I were looking for a project (I'm not, so I can be frank) I might be concerned that you are the type of client who thinks a feature is trivial when it isn't.

Another concern is this idea that you're "a fairly run of the mill operation." In my experience, every business owner seems to think this way. When some feature is missing, they think it's obvious that it should be there, when in fact they're the only one who's asked for the feature. (FileMaker developers are often guilty of this too.)

Hope that didn't sound harsh. I'm sort of playing devil's advocate from a developer perspective. I sympathize with your situation.

I assume you had reasons for developing in FileMaker to begin with. Of course I'm biased, but I'd suggest you revisit those reasons. I'd think customization would be number one. Being able to tweak data entry just so, and produce any report you want. That's a big plus for FileMaker.

Welcome to FMForums. Good luck!

[bruceR]

+1 for Tom's comments.

Wait for developer to get life in order: from this distant vantage point - no. 

Change = "all this will be lost". Do not agree. Hopefully you have learned a LOT about what you actually need and about the data organization fundamentals that support those needs. Also, you have all your data entered at this time; or most and it is exportable. "All is lost" also represents a mindset about the nature of this project and here again, Tom's comments are quite relevant.

Incremental ongoing change: this has a name, "agile development" and is widely practiced in the industry. If you expect a developer to develop, hand you the keys, and walk away from a perfected system, that isn't reality. That said - we can't really assess, of course, the nature of the problems and incompleteness of your current developed system.

Regarding Spire screen shots - yes, didn't see any but there are videos.

http://www.spiresystems.com/videos/

[Fitch]

Thanks, Bruce. I checked out the videos and it looks impressive. A full-blown accounting system is no small undertaking to develop in FileMaker or any other platform, starting from scratch.

More food for thought:

http://fmforums.com/forums/topic/87707-complete-accounting-system-in-filemaker-with-source-code/

http://hbase.net/2014/11/24/building-an-accounts-receivables-and-invoicing-system-in-filemaker-pro/

 

[David Jondreau]

"If I jump ship now all this will be lost."

The old "sunk cost" fallacy. It buries a lot of businesses. Don't fall for it. Forget what you've already spent, both in sweat and dollars. It's hard to accept, but it's irrelevant to what you should do next.

What you have isn't irrelevant. It's a buggy database with your data in it. That's worth something. Not $15K, but something.

It sounds like you think your choices are:

1) Continue with the current developer
2) Continue with the current system but a new developer
3) Find a new system.

What's the likelihood of #1 being successful? (Pretty slim based on your description).

#2? As a developer, based on your post, I would scrap everything you've got and start over from scratch. It'd take me more time to get up to speed on another (or two), substandard, developer's system than it would be to start from scratch.

Quit now. Go with #3. Whether that's Spire or another Filemaker developer or some other system depends on your needs. Which is a big conversation.

Please keep in mind, you had a developer who wasn't professional and another who couldn't finish the job. But you tolerated these relationships for two years! You need to look at your management style, at your business, and see what went wrong here or you'll just repeat it. It sounds like leading by abdication and not delegation but it could be something else.

 

 

 

 

[LaRetta]

Although it is tempting to rebuild from scratch, consider this (along with everything else you must consider):

Things you should never do (corrected link)

Most of your code is probably fine even if it may not always be optimized or is buggy.  I do not believe you would be qualified to make the determination on whether the existing solution is worth salvaging (nothing personal but FileMaker is a different breed of cat and it takes a FileMaker developer to really understand it).  

I would spend the bucks to have your solution reviewed by *another top developer.  A good developer could cost $1,000 for a fairly comprehensive assessment.  This evaluation cost is NOT solving all problems nor continuing your design ... only reviewing structure, coding and UI to determine how much of the 'knitting must be unraveled and re-knitted). 

Proper migration and alignment of data from one solution to another is an expensive and intensive undertaking.  This expense and time-requirement is often overlooked in these types of moves.   The target vendor will assure you it will be simple.  Do NOT believe them; they want your business.  Each piece of data (and more importantly, the business rules behind every piece) must be transformed.  

If you've put this much into the solution, another $1,000 for piece of mind and right decision is well worth it.

You say "fairly simple database" and then you say: inventory control, contact management, invoicing, quality control processes, export documentation and web ordering interface. Doesn't sound so simple to me! If I were looking for a project (I'm not, so I can be frank) I might be concerned that you are the type of client who thinks a feature is trivial when it isn't.

I agree completely - what is described is NOT simple at all!  Another solution might be best for you, but do not fall for the 'grass is greener' trap, no matter how discouraged you are at present.  Building a custom solution is never easy but you now have a solid blueprint of your business needs.  All is NOT lost.

Welcome to FMForums and I wish you well on your decision.

* and no, I am not available so my response is not biased in this regard

Note:   The $1,00 is WAG ... some developers might perform a higher overview for free even but be willing to pay for an in-depth, serious evaluation.  If you spend money now, THIS is where it should be spent, in my opinion.

Edited July 2, 2015 by LaRetta

[LaRetta]

The link I presented was broken (my mistake).  It is a great article so I wanted to post it again:

Things You Should Not Do

[bruceR]

Ooooh, love it. Great article. 

[David Jondreau]

Paying someone to review the work is probably worthwhile. I've done that for clients before. Both times my recommendation was to start over. 

With respect to migration...If the data is properly normalized then it should be no problem moving it into another system, no? And if it's not, you've got to migrate again anyway. I've done dozens of migrations, from Excel, from Access, from Lotus, and they're usually equal 50%-100% of the actual base development time of the alpha version.

Even Joel has a caveat in his article about not starting over: "...when applied to large scale commercial applications."

[LaRetta]

I've done dozens of migrations, from Excel, from Access, from Lotus, and they're usually equal 50%-100% of the actual base development time of the alpha version.

Migration FROM Excel, Access, Lotus to FM ... maybe but with due respect, I doubt it.  Most of my migrations from something else to FM have been from Pacioli, AccPac, ACT etc or other older non-normalized FM solutions and they all were quite difficult - not the migration itself but the business-rule translations.  If you check pricing on hiring migration specialists, they charge a LOT and there is a reason for it.

But we are talking about moving from FileMaker to another <unknown> software environment.  THEY do not know FileMaker.  And THEY are not willing to open their software for you to pick apart (not that it would help you one bit).  I've been involved in a few of these types of migrations in my 20 years in database development and rarely are they simple or smooth.

As for Joel's comment about "large scale commercial applications" ... well, consider this:

If a 3-employee mom-and-pop store wants an inventory system, it takes just as much code as it does for a 5,000-employee manufacturer.  If a real estate agent wants an accounting system, it takes the same basic structure as it does for a bank.  Inventory has it's several pieces which need to work together to properly manage inventory and accounting programs still require the same AR, AP and Payroll.

Sure there are times the migration can map simply one-to-one but it is uncommon.  The aftermath of these migrations results in logic which no longer matches what the business needs.  Then they will be told that, "oh, you can't do that in THIS software" and the benefit of why custom software was chosen to begin with flies out the window.

By the way, you say the same thing in your paragraph "quit now".  :-)

[David Jondreau]

I see what you mean, you don't have control over the new table structure. Some systems will do the migration for you.

"If a 3-employee mom-and-pop store wants an inventory system, it takes just as much code as it does for a 5,000-employee manufacturer. "

I'm going to have to disagree here.