Signable PDFs

[Matt Klein]

Hi all! I'm battling an interesting problem. I'm trying to create a PDF from FileMaker that can be signed using the Sign feature in Acrobat Reader.

I created a PDF with NO security restrictions using FileMaker's Save Records as PDF option. When I opened the PDF in Acrobat Reader, the Sign menu is grayed out and the "Signing" item in Document Restrictions Summary of the PDF is set to "Not Allowed".

I then created a PDF with security restrictions set in the Options when using FileMaker's Save Records as PDF option. I selected "Require password to control printing, editing and security" and then selected, "Any except extracting pages".

In the resulting PDF, I went to the Security tab of the Document Properties and click Show Details... under Document Security. In the details, it states that "Form Field Fill-in or Signing" is "Allowed". However, the "Signing" item in Document Restrictions Summary of the PDF is set to "Not Allowed" which ultimately means that Signing is not allowed.

Can anyone offer some suggestions on how to generate a PDF from FileMaker that is signable?

[Rick Whitelaw]

What I do rather than saving a signable PDF is to place a container field on the layout to be saved and insert a GIF of my signature. I do this for contracts and cheques. In Canada at least, this is perfectly legal. It also obviates the need for any further processing in another application.

RW

[Matt Klein]

Thanks Rick. That is a great option if the signature is known. In this case, the PDF is being sent to my client's client who wants to digitally sign it with their proprietary application. So, that particular avenue won't do in this situation.

[Matt Klein]

Incidentally, I opened a pdf with FileMaker with NO security restrictions set in both Acrobat Reader and Acrobat Full. When open in Reader, Signing is not allowed. The same document opened in Acrobat Full is signable. It appears to be controlled by the app that opens the file.

The confusing part to me is that Reader is supposed to allow for signing of documents.

[Matt Klein]

Update....further research shows that in order to allow digital signing of a PDF via Acrobat Reader, the PDF must be created in Adobe Acrobat Pro, not Adobe Acrobat Standard, and certain settings must be made.

This kind of tells me that Adobe doesn't allow apps other than Acrobat Pro to create PDFs that allow Acrobat Reader to digitally sign them.

[comment]

the PDF must be created in Adobe Acrobat Pro

That makes sense. But it would be interesting to see what happens when Filemaker appends pages to such document.

[Matt Klein]

That makes sense. But it would be interesting to see what happens when Filemaker appends pages to such document.

I just tested that. Modifying of a PDF that was set to allow extended features in Reader, such as digitally signing, removes the extended features. So you cannot digitally sign a PDF that has been appended to by FileMaker, or any other app I imagine, even if it was originally set to allow signing.

[Rick Whitelaw]

Good point. I've encountered this. My system signs my name, but so far my clients print, sign, and scan back to PDF and email the contract back. There must be a better way.

RW

[comment]

Modifying of a PDF that was set to allow extended features in Reader, such as digitally signing, removes the extended features.

Yeah, I did some reading on that and it looks like Adobe are taking their PDF security quite seriously.

Perhaps an alternative like this could suit your needs:

http://www.echosign.com/

[Matt Klein]

Yeah, I did some reading on that and it looks like Adobe are taking their PDF security quite seriously.

I'm actually 100% OK with that. We are in the medical industry and security is very serious.

[Matt Klein]

Update....

Well, in the end, I think that it has to do, at least partially, with how FileMaker encodes the fonts in PDFs and some limitations of my client's client's application. I ended up being required, for the customer's sake, to use a third-party PDF creation tool called Win2PDF. When I created a PDF from FileMaker using Win2PDF, there was no problem signing the document. I even applied security/encryption settings to this PDF and there still was no problem.

So, in the end, ANY PDF coming out of FileMaker, including those that had NO security restrictions at all, failed to be signable by the client's app.

Win2PDF uses ANSI to encode the fonts while FileMaker uses some kind of Custom encoding. That's the only difference I can see between the two.

[comment]

Win2PDF uses ANSI to encode the fonts while FileMaker uses some kind of Custom encoding. That's the only difference I can see between the two.

I am still investigating this for my own needs, but that doesn't seem very plausible. By Adobe's book, a document is "signable" if it has a "field" to hold the signature - and only the full Acrobat creates this field. There are very few 3rd party applications that do the same - perhaps you were lucky and Win2PDF is one of them.

[Matt Klein]

I am still investigating this for my own needs, but that doesn't seem very plausible. By Adobe's book, a document is "signable" if it has a "field" to hold the signature - and only the full Acrobat creates this field. There are very few 3rd party applications that do the same - perhaps you were lucky and Win2PDF is one of them.

Luck had nothing to do with it. The developers of the app that the PDFs are being sent to suggested I use it or Crystal Reports. Perhaps Win2PDF does add this field to the PDF. I can't be sure. What I CAN be sure of is that nothing I sent from FM worked with their app and as soon as I sent one created with Win2PDF all was good.

[comment]

Perhaps Win2PDF does add this field to the PDF. I can't be sure.

That's easy to find out: print something, open it in Acrobat Reader and look at the properties (Security/Signing).

[Christel Hoff Cartillier]

I think this changed with the newer Adobe reader (11).

 

I was also invastigating this as I needed to create PDF agreements to be allowed to be signed digitally by the clients with Adobe reader.

When security settings were set to 'commenting, filling in form fields and signing' the PDF was secured and signing menu was grayed out in Adobe Reader.

 

I now set the PDF security to 'Any except extracting pages' but 'Enable copying of text, images and other content' checked-out. And the resulting PDF file is now secured but signature is allowed.

 

Hope that helps someone !

[bcooney]

bump

 

Has anyone successfully integrated Adobe EchoSign with Filemaker?

 

-Barbara

[mikedr]

What I've found is that FM's built-in PDF handling does not support the full Adobe Acrobat feature set. For things that are quite Adobe-specific, the best solution I've come up with is a quite involved mess of calling AppleScripts that interact with Acrobat. And, to make this even worse, Adobe is not AS friendly -- to automate a simple import XML into a dynamic PDF form, I had to hire a PDF developer to assist me (although he was very reasonably priced, under $500).

[bcooney]

Hey Mike, thanks for the response. Still looking for the "elegant" and legally-acceptable solution, and my gut says it's Adobe EchoSign-related.

[MonkeybreadSoftware]

The MBS Plugin could maybe help.

We use DynaPDF for PDF work cross platform and this library can create signature fields.

But please explain what you want to do exactly. e.g. we can sign a PDF with digital signature. We can also apply restrictions to a PDF. 

Maybe you want to check with me what you need and what we can do?

[rSalois]

That issue has been resolved for years so far, yet it may occur with Adobe software even now, but that's nothing but their trick. In order to keep the files working properly, they should be created with using Adobe products only. That means you ought to use Adobe Acrobat Pro to create that document. For a purpose of filling out and signing pdf forms, I prefer to use this one https://w9.pdffiller.com has its own shortcomings and has no pay-once but good