FMS8v4 updater not responding; OSX Server 10.4.8

[ken_s2007]

I recently installed OS X Server 10.4 on a G4 933Mhz. 1GB RAM machine, brought it to 10.4.8, installed FMS8v2 and Web publishing.

Downloaded 8.0v4 fms & fmsweb updaters. Stopped the Server from FMS Admin (on the local host), ran the server updater, it tells me it is going to do its work on the correct volume, but the updater is "not responding". After this, I cannot connect to the server with FMS Admin:

"Connection Failure". Could not connect to FileMaker Server "(localhost)" (127.0.0.1)"

.... until reboot. I've rebooted, re-downloaded the installer, etc., many times. I later tried upgrading the WPE (after stopping that service), and that updater worked fine.

Permissions on LibraryFileMaker ServerLibrary are:

rwx for the owner fmserver, no privileges for the group fmsadmin.

10/31/2006 update: I was unable to use uninstall to remove FMS8; I tried manually, then reinstalled, tried to update, no luck, so I reinstalled OS X server, repeated the processes only just installing Server so far (no WPE), and the problem persists. I'm scratching my head ... corrupt updater? bad RAM (everything else works fine), or?

11/1/2006 updates: I've reformatted the hard drive (writing zeros). Lather, rinse, repeat, same failure.

I'm starting to think there might be something wrong with my install. I reformatted, etc., as before, only didn't try to run the 8v4 Updater, simply tried to run the Uninstaller, and it locks up too: "FileMaker Server 8 (not responding)".

Ken

[ken_s2007]

SOLVED.

To recap: I was unable to upgrade FMS8v2 to v4; the Updater became unresponsive. I searched the FMI KB, but did not find an answer. After much trial, I sleuthed some additional info, and found a relevant KB about stopping services that FileMaker Server Admin does not stop after issuing a Stop Server command.

The KB Answer ID is: 6101. That should help anyone else with the same problem; there is another method that can be used from FileMaker Server Admin (involves a reboot however). That and some other info follows, but is not required if you follow the kb.

Note also that if you run uninstall from FMS8v2 (and perhaps other versions) without all the daemons stopped, you'll be informed that you need to stop services first, yet the uninstaller appears to delete a lot of files anyway. I've written that up as a product suggestion (that these files should not be deleted, or even appear to be deleted, when the uninstaller clearly knows that all daemons have not been stopped -- even better yet, have the uninstaller do the work for you if possible).

--

Installed FMS8v2 with Easy Install. Got "You have installed software that suggests you restart your computer. <>". Restarted.

At the console (i.e., not remote), Activity Montor, relevant running daemons are: FMS: fmserverd, fmserver_helperd. After Stopping FileMaker Server from FileMaker Server Admin: Server > Stop FileMaker Server, fmserverd is no longer running, but fmserver_helperd is. After: Server > Local FileMaker Server Administration > Stop FileMaker Server Processes; same results. Rebooted to get fmserverd running again (I alternatively could have run Server > Local FileMaker Server Administration > Start FileMaker Server Processes).

After reboot, with all the FMS services running: Server > Local FileMaker Server Administration > System Startup > Do not start any FileMaker Server processes, then rebooting: neither fmserverd nor fmserver_helperd are running (as they should not be).

A bit of a side trip, but of note: Launched FileMaker Server 8v2 (installer/uninstaller) and chose Uninstall, and got: "The uninstall was successful. However, some files / folders could not be deleted because they are shared by other applications, currently in use, or contain files not installed by this install program. <>". That message didn't make sense to me, given that the two services were stopped. I checked the FMS 8 Installer Log and most items are marked as Deleted. Ones marked as Error Deleting (Folder?) / File not found are perhaps Japanese or Chinese, etc. (two of:) FMS .pdf, FMS Lisezmoi (Français).pdf, FMS Licence (Français).pdf, (three of:) FM8_.pdf, and (two of:) FM8_ODBC_JDBC_.pdf. Also got: Error Deleting: Logs (and Data, and FileMaker Server) The file is in use by another application.

Rebooted just for good measure. Launched FileMaker Server 8v2 (installer/uninstaller) and ran Easy Install again. Rebooted (again with Local FileMaker Server Administration set to Stop FileMaker Server Processes). Neither fmserverd nor fmserver_helperd are running (as expected). Ran FMS Server 8 v4 Updater. Got "You have installed software that suggests you restart your computer. <>". Restarted. All appears well.

Ken

[Steven H. Blackwell]

Always reboot after applying FMP or FMS updates.

Second, be sure all services are stopped before updating. If you're using Server Advanced that also means Apache or IIS. FileMaker Server Helper, FIleMaker Server, and the 2 web services should all be stopped.

Steven

[ken_s2007]

> Always reboot after applying FMP or FMS updates.

I realize this may sound nit-picking -- it's not meant to be, just trying to understand more of the inner workings: In FMS Admin > Local FileMaker Server Administration, there is a button that toggles between Stop (and Start) FIleMaker Server Processes. Clicking Start causes "Both the FileMaker Server Helper daemons to start." (FMS8 Help) And in fact, that does indeed start fmserver_helperd and fmserverd (on the machine I'm on now). (It also stops both, whereas the Server > Stop FileMaker Server does not stop fmserver_helperd). This is verified in Activity Monitor.

Now, rebooting is even simpler, and unless there is some other reason one would like to avoid a reboot (i.e., stopping some other service, but that is not likely for machines dedicated to FM Server work), it makes total sense, and is great advice, no disagreement at all. But if the daemons that are known to be needed to be running can be started via Local FileMaker Server Administration, and verified as running processes in Activity Monitor, is there any known reason why the computer would be in any different state doing it that way?

It's partly a theoretical question, but I'm also asking in case there are other situations where issuing start commands, via FMS Admin and/or Terminal should be avoided, at least without a reboot.

Thanks, Ken

[Steven H. Blackwell]

Well, first you cannot trust the Activity Monitor.

Second, the SAT Tool cannot be launched if the Helper Daemon/Service is off. before updating you need to turn it off. Use the terminal to do that if you're on OSX; on Windows Server 2003 use the Services Control Panel.

Terminal Command:

fmserver_helperd start

fmserver_helperd stop

The web stuff is separate.

Steven

[ken_s2007]

> Well, first you cannot trust the Activity Monitor.

That's something I've never seen documented. I don't have any basis to dispute that OTOH, and you have astronomically more exerperience with FMS than I do. Is it possible that processes shown as running actually are, but that they are loaded in an incorrect order?

> Second, the SAT Tool cannot be launched if the Helper Daemon/Service is off. before updating you need to turn it off.

Agreed, the daemon needs to be turned off before updating.

Re the first part of that sentence however, my experience with FileMaker Server Admin is that if the Helper Daemon/Service is off, that indeed, you cannot connect to FileMaker service, but that by using Server > Local FileMakerServer > Start FileMaker Server Processes, and then attempt to connect, and choose Yes (to start FMS and then connect), that the connection is made, and the necessary daemons show up in Activity Monitor as running (and without a reboot).

I appreciate your advice, and time.

Ken

[Steven H. Blackwell]

This is probably a Mac OS behavior. I know the UI you're talking about. It might launch the helper daemon if it's turned off. I will test that out sometime and see.

Regarding the reboot, this is a receommended practice for good server maintenance, and it is not tied to the ability of the daemons to start.

Steven

[ken_s2007]

Note: I had been working at the console, and just now connected with FileMaker Server Admin running on another computer.

"Server > Local FileMakerServer Administration..." is not available when using FMS Admin anywhere but the server (requiring physical, or virtual (e.g., Remote Desktop, Timbuktu, etc.) access).

Ken

[Steven H. Blackwell]

Did you tell it to allow remote connections?

Steven

[ken_s2007]

Yes, the server is set to accept remote connections, and in fact I connected remotely while trying to use Server > Local FileMaker Administration... The word "Local" I suppose is a good clue as to the scope of the functions that section offers, although I don't know why those functions couldn't be extended to FMS Admin when used remotely.

Help says:

"To start FileMaker Server locally:

1. In the FileMaker Server Admin application, choose Server menu > Local FileMaker Server Administration."

Ken

[Steven H. Blackwell]

n fact I connected remotely while trying to use Server > Local FileMaker Administration...

Eh, say what? You don't connect remotely to the server from Local Administration. Remote connection is a separate toggle thathas to be checked in the SAT Tool.

Steven

[ken_s2007]

Sorry, my wording was bad. What I meant is that:

"I connected remotely, *then* tried to use Server > Local FileMaker Administration..."

I had very strong doubts that connecting to the server first would allow Local Administration to work (although it was something I'd never tried) -- but you asked if I allowed remote connections, in response to my prior post about "Server > Local FileMakerServer Administration..." So I was responding (albeit unclearly) that, yes, I had allowed remote connections, and in fact did connect remotely (and then looked to see if Local Administration might be possible).

Ken

[Steven H. Blackwell]

The remote connection is for use when the SAT Tool is not on the same machine as the server. There are restrictions about its use in conjunction with WAN's and firewalls. The Local Admin is for running the SAT Tool installed on the same machine that is the server.

This is why I prefer the Windows OS version that is integrated into the Microsoft Management Console.

Steven