Problems Opening a file on a network

[Jeff Bendert]

I know this is a very basic question, but here is the problem. I created a FileMaker relational database on my local hard drive which contains scripts. I then copied all of the files to a shared network folder. Another co-worker tried to open the database on the network using FILE, OPEN. They were able to open the database, however when they click on a button, which runs a script that opens a related file, a message is displayed stating that changes cannot be made because the file cannot be modified. So, I changed the sharing property for all files involved in this database so it can be accessed by all users. However when they try to open the database they still receive the same message. The only way someone can open the database without receiving any error messages is if I open the file from my computer and then have the user select the FILE, OPEN REMOTE option. What am I doing wrong?? I just want someone to be able to open the file on a network...nothing fancy!

Thanks for your help,

Jeff

[Ender]

You should not be sharing databases through file sharing. It is bad practice that can lead to file corruption.

Instead, set up one client as a host, and have the others connect with Open Remote.

[PatriciaW]

I'm not sure about this myself. If I open the main file using Open Remote, and that file executes a script that opens other files ... are they also opened Remote?

[Fenton]

Yes, they are opened "remote" (remote to the client). This question should not really occur. Because there should one be 1 copy of any particular file, and it should be on the host machine. Having "copies" on local machines is not quite as bad as using OS File Sharing, but is not good. Data can be lost, since there's no guarantee it ends up on the hosted files; and there is some possibility of corrupting the files. FileMaker is not like other applications. It's its own little world :-]

No OS File Sharing on the "host" machine (could be FileMaker Server or Pro). Only 1 copy of the files. Clients can have OS File Sharing on. The FileMaker host machine can be used by someone, if you're just running FileMaker Pro on it. But that has limitations, and is only suitable in a very small office, with light access (and non-business-critical data). Any other machine than the FileMaker host can be set up as the "file server," for non-FileMaker files. Basically, give FileMaker its own machine.

[PatriciaW]

Not clear on this ... it is a question that I have in general about sharing. When I run an application that is hosted on another machine, and that application opens another file (on the same host machine,) is that considered the same as Open remote from the client machine?

My other question (asked earlier in a different forum but not answered by anyone yet) is are file references defined as relative to the folder of the file which is referencing them (on the host machine) and not on the client machine? (I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that most of the application code is running on the client machine.)

[Fenton]

Yes. All FileMaker files are on the host machine. No FileMaker files are on the client (except maybe an Opener file, which explicitly uses Open Remote). So obviously any interaction between the files is "remote" to the client.

If, however, you have a local file with the same name, all bets are off. FileMaker might open BOTH the remote (which was explicitly targeted) AND the local. A bad situation. "Relative" file references help. But that still makes me nervous. And I don't see any reason to have same-named files on both machines; seems confusing at best.

It seems to me that there are really 2 kinds of file references. The Define File References ones, which are the main ones, seen in the Relationship Graph. These are resolved on the host machine.

Then there are the Export and Import file references, which are defined in the script step itself. They are not usually the same as the Define File References (though they can be). In the case of Export, the path is always resolved on the local machine, the client. Otherwise how would you have access to the resulting file?

You don't (or shouldn't have) File Sharing on the host machine, hence you have no access to "files" on that machine; only FileMaker files via FileMaker networking (which is not the same). This is a critical fact to keep in mind.

Import is a little trickier. If the import is scripted, and it is a FileMaker file, and you have used Define File References (as well as setting the path in the Import File Reference), and you've put a Table Occurrence of the file on your Relationship Graph,* then the hosted file will import from another file on its drive, using the relative path to the file.

Otherwise, if you show a dialog, you are going to importing data from the client machine to the host machine. Because, once again, when you pick a file, it has to be on your client machine. How else could you see it?

You can also script an Import from a file on the client machine to the hosted files, IF you've set up all of the above properly for the "remote" file (in this case the file is "remote" from the hosted file, though it is a "local" file to the client).

Conversely you can import into a file physically on the client from the hosted files. You'd seldom do this, except for a stand-alone file, for a PDA or something.

Important point here: it is very difficult to talk about these things, unless you explicitly describe the files. The words "host" and "local" are normally used to mean "files on the host" and "files on the client". But it is also possible for a Client machine to "host" a file(s), which are accessed by the "hosted" files on the Host machine.

It all makes sense if you take into account what FileMaker can see, and what the OS can see. But it is hard to describe (and not so easy to remember either). FileMaker gives you every possibility it can.

* I'm not sure if you need the TO, but it wouldn't work for me without it.

(P.S. I also managed to freeze FileMaker when trying to "replace" an existing file in the Export File References. It is a somewhat dangerous dialog box. Back up your files first. Or refrain from choosing "replace" in that dialog. It's a bug.)

[hccs]

So I have purchased FM PRO 7 and it doesnt see files on our host running server version 5. We only have one host and all the files are unique (not running any duplicate files..)Ive typed in the ip of thehost, still no mgo.

Is there compatibilty problem between the new FM and server 5?

thanks,

dan lederer

[Ender]

FM7 and FM5/6 are not cross compatible. You can convert fp5 files to version 7, but you can't really go backwards.

Either stick with FM5 or 6 for a while, or upgrade all clients and server to version 7.

[PCGMKTG]

I am in a small office where only 3 of us will have access to a FM7 database that I have developed. At the moment we have one copy of FM7 which is on my PC and only I have access to via a dedicated drive.

It is too costly for us to buy the Developer version, so we want to buy a copy of FM7 for each of us so we can access the database via the network.

All of this stuff about opening remote files is beyond me. I plan to save a copy of the latest database every day so that if anything bad happens we don't lose everything, but can someone explain in layman's terms how best we can go about setting this up for everyday use. Is it like opening a Word document via a network where you get a message saying the file is in use and you can only open a read-only version or what?

Thanks

[PCGMKTG]

Is there anyone that can answer this for me? Please...

[PatriciaW]

I appreciate your concerns ... and I'm not really in a position to answer fully, but what I understand is that the first person who opens a database becomes the host of that database. Any other users who open the database become clients. Both host and client can access and update the database but not the same records at the same time. These limitations are discussed in the Manual. The one point to note is that when the database is opened by clients not on the machine that the database resides on, must use the File > Open Remote ... command and not the File > Open ... command (which could allow the user to open the file over the network as though it was a local file and would bypass FM Sharing.)