How popular is FileMaker these days???

[XebraTech]

I'm back having a look at FileMaker again after not setting eyes on it for almost 10 years. I had a colleague who was ALWAYS busy back then doing consulting work and she did almost all FileMaker work. I was in another group and did all 4D work and we were just as busy.

I've since spent that last 10 years doing mostly web development using various large SQL databases, but I'm getting tired of fussing with browser interfaces and have moved more and more into Rich Interactive Applications. (Such as Flash with Flash Remoting).

This makes incredibly nice interfaces that are completely web enabled, but development time is still pretty chewy. Just goofing with FileMaker and it's pretty slick in this version 7 format. I do feel somewhat constrained by the simplistic scriptiness, but I understand the mission and it does make for easy programming to be sure.

Question that I have is that in looking at various sources such as job sites, tele-commute sites etc, I see almost NO filemaker listings. Hard to get a feel for how many businesses are using the desktop database any longer since it seems EVERYthing has to be web or web-enabled. (Nice to see how easily FM7 makes this also however).

So, once upon a time FileMaker was pretty popular and doing some pretty amazing things even as a twisted flat file database, but now - it's looking pretty mainstream with multiple tables, relations, etc. Would anyone care to comment on FileMaker in today's business climate, the difficulty in landing FileMaker based business in general? I'm knocking together a fairly significant little application in short order as a test using the Demo version, so I can see that FileMaker is better up to the kinds of systems that I've written in the past, though some of it is really annoying at times, but I'm also used to a pretty varied & comprehensive sets of tools and technologies.

Not trying to be a techno-snob here, but am truly deciding on maybe trying something completely different for a change of pace and don't want to drop a line into waters where there simply aren't any or very few fish.

Thanks to any and all that may wish to share their thoughts and experiences.

Best regards...Bob

Bob McCormick

XebraTech

[gdurniak]

I don't think things have changed that much. If your business needs filemaker, then filemaker is still the best choice

FM7 improved some things, and messed up others. FM7 still can not "crunch" numbers

I don't believe IT "snobs" will be any more or less impressed than before

[Søren Dyhr]

Would anyone care to comment on FileMaker in today's business climate, the difficulty in landing FileMaker based business in general?

Well someone has:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050503/sftu010.html?.v=9

Not as if it matters much ...what exactly do you wish be confirmed in! Once a tutor in marketing told me that the more you pay for a survey, the more it tends to agree with your prejudice!!!

--sd

[XebraTech]

I appreciate your comments. Thanks - I thought I'd see more posts, but maybe I'm asking just such a stupid question that everybody is having a pretty good chuckle. Basically, I'm trying to make a decision on whether I'm going to jump into the FM7 waters here and that's going to cost a nice little chunk of change - so trying to do a little bit of discovery.

Spending $500 on developer and then joining FSA at the most basic level for $250 is a pretty serious investment, so I'm trying to ensure that I'm not going to spend all of that money and then the probable significant amout of time to learn it well on a product that I can't market my skillset. That's truly what my post is about. I have a decision to make that I'd like to obtain as much information as possible. Thought I'd go to where I think most knowledgeable folks hang out and see what the concensus was - then I have to either fish or cut bait.

Best regards...Bob

Bob McCormick

XebraTech

[Søren Dyhr]

I'm not going to spend all of that money and then the probable significant amout of time to learn it well on a product that I can't market my skillset. That's truly what my post is about.

Thats the real question, or is it??? I have a background in music business - and here is it obvious that the gear/tools really is secondary to the people skills and especially the ability to listen to what the customers wants ...the expectation that a tool in itself makes customers gather at your frontdoor is silly. When it comes to it isn't what under the hood that counts, but instead your ability to put the customer at ease....

BTW Joining the FSA entitles you to recieve a package of all the tools in the family. At least that what the chap who hires me recieved ...I'm not sure all FSA members does it??

--sd

[stanley]

FSA membership comes with FMP and FM Mobile at the very least. The Associate Program gets you FMD for something like $500.

-Stanley

[XebraTech]

There's no hidden agenda dude. I'm trying to get a feel for whether FileMaker is worth the effort. I'm somewhat TIRED of web development for extremely large systems and felt that maybe doing something in the database arena would be a bit refreshing as I used to do that exclusively several years ago.

I've interfaced with companies such as CBS Studios, Mattel, Canon, Lockheed Martin - so I'd say I don't have a problem interfacing with clients by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, just the opposite. I have been running at a ragged pace for several years and the thought of slowing down a bit sounds delicious. Just trying to determine if one can make a decent living with the tool. That's it. Rather than try to figure out what I'm NOT saying - why don't you just answer the questions I initially posed? If you don't know - then that's OK.

To call into question my professional capabilities only seems to indicate that you've nothing to add to the mix except to cause heartburn. Maybe this isn't the place to obtain metrics as I still haven't gotten any type of thoughtful response yet.

Regarding the free software, the post after yours is correct. What I've been told is that until I have a year of FM under my belt and take an exam, I can't even get to the Associate level. FileMaker protects their developer statuses which I actually appreciate very much. Makes it difficult for anybody to say they are a FM expert. So, in order to get things boot-strapped as a complete FM neophite, I truly need to purchase the Developer edition and purchase the base level of FSA and study like a nut to prep for that next level. Hence my initial post here, which to my chagrin no one has answered yet.

Regards...Bob

Bob McCormick

XebraTech

[stanley]

Bob:

I believe you can do pretty well with FileMaker, but like everything else it depends on your market. I deal for the most part with small to medium sized businesses (5 to 100 employees) for whom there is no off-the-shelf product, especially because they work in a cross-platform environment. Places like silk screening shops, testing labs, art studios, non-profits, etc., are such niche markets (for software) that no big player will develop anything aimed at their business needs. Due to its fairly open-ended nature, FileMaker is perfect for this type of thing, and I haven't even had to touch any other development environment in about three years.

Regarding business viability, I am a one-man shop, and manage to pay the rent (in New York City) and take my vacations entirely based on FileMaker Pro, and am on the verge of hiring my first full-time employee, so I'd say you can certainly make a go of it. Whether FMP development will let you "slow down" - I guess that depends on the sort of gigs you end up with.

As far as joining the FSA, it's up to you. I'd say that joining at the lowest tier would make sense if you really want to dive in, especially if you've got a Palm and want to explore FM Mobile, as you would otherwise probably not even buy the thing (FMM doesn't have a very good reputation). Buying FMD is certainly not necessary if you are just about to begin with FileMaker; FileMaker Pro can do everything Developer can do with the exception of the debugging tools and the tools for making stand-alones and kiosks, and the latter items are advanced topics, which many many developers never even use.

I hope that's all useful, and good luck. If you end up trying out FileMaker, you will find that these Forums are pretty much the best tool in the box...

-Stanley

[Fenton]

I would agree with Stanley about the market. I also develop for small businesses, who cannot find a reasonable pre-built solution to fit their needs (these folks are not the Oracle market). But being small doesn't necessarily mean simple. They usually want something that is very custom-fit to their work flow. Often this is an ongoing process, as they realize just what can be done, and how much time they can save. FileMaker is excellent for this kind of thing.

I would disagree to some extent about Developer. While it is not "necessary," it will help you immensely, especially if you're from a different type of developing environment. FileMaker's ScriptMaker is often somewhat oblique to those from other backgrounds. It is not as "open" as other systems. Developer's Script Debugger is a great help, because it allows you to run through your scripts easily, one step at a time, so you can see what's happening with the data (if it is visible on the screen, which it should be at this stage) and where the steps are going.

As far as making money. If you can meld your previous web development and programming skills with FileMaker Server Advanced, doing custom web publishing with xml/xsl and/or php, you should find as much interesting work as you want. FileMaker 7 has stepped up into the realm of the big boys, and we're all scambling to keep up with it.

There's also a fair amount of xml/xsl/php possibilities for integration with online sites, such as eBay. I'm seriously looking for a way to do that, from the desktop. I can do the xml/xsl, but lack the programming language to wrap it for sending. It requires serious authentication, which you can't do with a simple "get" type url. With php installed it should be possible (for someone else :-)

BTW, FileMaker had a deal where you could get a limited version of FileMaker Server Advanced for only $10, if you have Developer (I don't think this is available for just Pro, tell me if I'm wrong). It could only serve 3 at a time, but it's perfect for learning, which is why they did it. Otherwise it's about $2500. I don't know if this is still a valid offer.

[DataPro]

I'd like to comment from the perspective of someone relatively new to FM.

I've been programming for about 30 years, but needed to develop products that could work on the web and also run on a local computer without a difficult installation or run-time fees. I've been watching Filemaker every so often and Version 7 seemed to have what I needed, so I bought it. I've been pursuing learning it for the last few months and am very pleased with the language. Even though is a scripting language, it's pretty powerful and has been relatively easy to learn (with the help of a couple of good books and this forum).

If you plan on creating new software for a client, I believe you can develop it easier and faster with FM than anything I've seen. Most of our new development will be in FM.

Besides all of this, I'm still having a lot of fun exploring the features and am constantly impressed at what can be done with it!

[stanley]

That's one of the things I think is most overlooked regarding FMP - it's usefulness as a RAD (Rapid Application Development) tool. I was involved in a start-up a few years ago which was supposed to make a video editor's toolbox (which never shipped.) I built the prototype using FMP, QuickTime and AppleScript in about four days, and it's still more functional than what the programming team had produced after 10 months of coding, when the whole show went belly-up.

-Stanley

[Ricardo]

Hi There,

Hope you dont mind me joing this thread!

Im based in the UK and my primary role for the past 5 years now has been developing with FM Pro...mainly fm pro 5 and 6 with server 5.5.

The problem i see here in the UK is that FM is not widley used...and i think this is mainly down to lack of 'know' about this application.

I have recently purchased fm pro 8 adv and also have fm server 7 adv and fm server 8...with the new features...i believe this has opened many doors which if the word could get about would take FM to the next level here in the UK and now, i am about to emabark on the learning of PHP i am hoping that now with FM so more 'web' friendly this can lead to exciting times. Is this the case in the US...is FM now coming in line with dbs such as MYSQL and dare i say it with ORACLE?

IS there anyone on here in the UK as i would be interested to hear their thoughts on FM here in the UK.

[Inky Phil]

Hello Ricardo,

I am from the UK.

Worse than that I am from St Helens - it's rough, it's tough and we were robbed!!! :

I am afraid that I cannot add to this thread from a professional viewpoint as I am little more than an enthusiastic amateur developing for my own business however I did have one thought.

With regard to SME's are they even concerned what product is used to produce their solution? Isn't that more of concern to the developer?

I have bought a number of off the shelf products in the past and it never entered my head what they where based on. My only concern was 'Do they do what I want?'

On the only occasion I ever employed someone to write a bespoke solution, naturally, I assumed that it would do what I had asked for. Again I wasn't concerned how it did it. I just expected it to do it. (I was wrong of course. It didn't do what I wanted hence my decision to learn how to do it myself! )

I guess what I am saying is that what people are looking for is a good developer and not necessarily a good FM developer.

My 2c's worth

Regards

Phil

ps - never thought I would see the words rough, tough,rugby league and RICARDO all in the one place :)

[Ricardo]

The developer you got to develop your solution did he/she at any time ask what the end result was which you required?...this should always, i believe, be the first question a devopler asks their client!!!

Do you know of any UK companies using Filemaker bases solutions?

p.s. Same old saints always whinging!!! haha.

Im looking forward to seeing Gaz Raynor take on them aussies in front of his home town fans tomorrow for GB...Come on the Lions!! -)

[Inky Phil]

It was my fault really Ric.

I hired a newbie developer.

I new he was a newbie.

I just didn't know how new.

Knowing absolutely nothing of course it sounded to me that he knew everything. I soon found that the solution, while it looked like it should work, was actually slower than going getting the info from the filing cabinet. This was in the good old days of dBase2 so I got me a book and read up on it.

It only took me about 50 readings of this book to accept that it was actually written in English!!! It just used words I had never heard before.

Once I understood the language a bit I soon worked out that the newbie wasn't into relationships much so I started again and did it myself.

That was a long time ago.

I had much the same experience with a proprietory solution for my printing business. I haven't got a clue what it was written in but having tried it and me being a smart-a*se I decided I could do better but by then dbBase was old hat and my research led me to FM as the new kid on the block.

With regard to FM in the UK I have not had any contact directly with anyone in the uk although there seems to be a little UK activity in the forums. I just googled 'Filemaker developers UK' and around about page 2 they began to pop up so there is obviously some acivity here

Regards

Phil

[stanley]

Phil & Ricardo:

There are indeed a number of UK-based FileMaker developers, doing quite interesting things. For some reason there aren't as many active here on FMForums relative to what I would expect.

I entirely agree with Phil's point regarding solutions - it shouldn't matter what a solution is based on, so long as the framework will support what the client wants it to do. With versions 7 & 8, we FileMaker developers finally have the tools to compete with the big boys. I'm just working on a contract which I stole from under the noses of a large MAS200 consultancy. When they heard I was using FileMaker, they told the client that it was an "amateur tool." I then went over the requirements list with the client, and found that I was able to meet about 99% of their specific requirements whereas the MAS200 people were only able to meet about 75%, and were going to charge about $50,000 more than me.

-Stanley