Lost Records!

[Designer]

I have a client with a FM 6.0 database of book titles in her used book store with over 47,700 records. Recently she's been losing groups of records. This may be user error with her somewhat archaic back up system, but I just wanted to make sure she's not exceeding the capacity for number of records in Filemaker 6.0. Anyone know the limit for that? Also, if she was exceeding the limit, would there be any alerts so she would know or would records just dissappear without warning?

Thanks - Tim

[IdealData]

She's certainly within the record count limits, although FM6 files are limited to 2Gb size.

Almost certain user error. Is someone else (new) using the system?

[Søren Dyhr]

My guess is it's a careless use of cascaded delete over relations, something the developer has made a logical flaw in the implementation. It could sound like a selfjoin causing this!

IdealData suggests a user error, which I think is the developers humble duty to avoid ...the developer should remember that users usually multitasks when using a database ...Phil should know what driving style a vehicle exhibit when the driver is on his mobile blower, driving in dense traffic say when on the M25 near Heathrow.

Even women who are born multitaskers, are sometimes "Lost in Transitions" to paraphrase a filmtitle slightly. If you develope systems for "...chaotic world" - be sure the users are suffiently clad!

--sd

[John Mark Osborne]

FileMaker 6 has no record limit according to the specifications listed at the filemaker.com web site. So, you can fit as many records as you want into a 2 gigabyte file.

When I worked in technical support, the biggest reasons for record loss were the following (in no particular order)

1) Careless cascading deletes (as SD mentions)

2) Users confusing find mode and browse mode and entering their data into find mode

3) Careless backup management such that the wrong related files were located. Backups should be compressed or made unavailable on the network so FileMaker can't locate them.

[Designer]

Thanks all of you for your help!

I'm becoming convinced that it is careless backup strategy or user error. This client is not very computer literate.

But what are cascading deletes?

Thanks,

Tim

[IdealData]

As ever Soren your insight into some of the questions posed here verges on telepathic. But it would be appreciated if you could keep your replies directed to the originator and tackle the question. I think a few of us here have urged you to think before you write, and you are once a gain reminded.

Your comment about my skills is defamatory and, as such, could be construed as libel.

I did not consider the potential for cascading deletes as I have never permitted it to happen in my systems. For the record, I have 10 years FM experience, mostly as an in house developer with a diverse skills range in an even more diverse application scope. The system has been developed to such an extent that the only way to delete any records requires atleast 2 confirmations, and in the most part only permits single record deletions.

Belt and braces enough?

[Søren Dyhr]

But what are cascading deletes?

--sd

[Søren Dyhr]

Belt and braces enough?

I know I made a strawmans argument, but it was merely to get you on your marks - I appologize if offended you too much, but hopefully are you ready for a few more?

As it is, do scandinavians subscripe to another notion than the anglosaxons, in rough terms could be descriped this way:

The anglosaxon: We're all created equal, and it the persons own fault if he/she nurses the provided talent poorly and escapes an opportunity for self-promotion.

The scandinavian: We can't have IF someone accidentally are being born in the wrong society, leads to weaker educational foundations, and if this weaker foundation however is evident, is it our common duty to remedy this instead of exploiting it.

This leads to different approaches to questions, is it the lack of foundations that leads to unsolved problems, or are all questions without exception "just the last piece in the jigsaw puzzle" kind of type.

My aim is here to point at the recognition of the paradox; that everything can be exaggerated! Even soft power:

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2000/0612/joffe.html

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/users/login.php?story_id=2583&URL=http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=2583

Please note who also saw this when saying this to a hungarian (my guess?) and dane in dispute in a thread:

You are being fussy old women and not at all like the explorers I know you to be.

http://fmforums.com/forum/showpost.php?post/212063/

Care is not something I preemptively pays to charities, to justify a "caveat emptor" conduct...

--sd

[gdurniak]

also, check all of your hard drives (local and server), and make sure no other copy of your FileMaker file(s) exist anywhere (even in the trash)

Users might be entering data into one of these extra copies, without knowing it

This file reference "problem" was eliminated in FM7 & 8

[IdealData]

What are cascading deletes?

When FM files/tables are related then there is a parent/child structure. If you delete a "parent" record, and the relationship permits deletion of related records, the "children" will also be deleted.

Additionally, if the "children" are also parents to their own children then these "children" will also be deleted.

I do no suspect this is the case for you as your client has had their system for a while now, and I'm sure they would have become aware of this before.