Occurrences counter

[seraph_nyc]

Hi, I built a database with 20 questions. I need to set up a way of checking the amount of Occurrences in each field.

I have set up a count and a self join to do that. But there are a few things I don't know how to handle.

If there are multiple entries in one field separated by a carriage return, filemaker will pick up each Occurrence and count it. But will it display each one seperately.

For instance if the question is Favorite Designer

and they answer

1) Armani

2) Armani

Gucci

The program will count Armani 2 and Gucci 1 but wont display Gucci separately in the portal. Is there a way to seperate this out?

Secondly I am trying to list this in a portal. But I am having trouble understanding the relations between the database and the self join. Every time I grasp it, it slips away. I read the white papers on Occurrences and I understand it but I cant implement it. Any ideas

[Søren Dyhr]

Is there a way to seperate this out?

There is be sure of that, but portalized subsummary reports are by all means pretty tough to make, and especailly when genuine subsummary reports are availiable as a more obvious choise.

I take it the participants in this survey might answer with what ever comes to mind, not restrained to choises made via checkboxes or similar?

The tricky part is that it's pretty tough to convince the participants that 1 NF dictates one fact per field, but you could solve it differently, by having a little portal assigned to replies, and let the user know that each entry goes to a new line.

Although it could be set up as a selfjoin, isn't it again the most obvious choise, a two table solution, where the second have 20 different foreignkeys and then a field for the reply.

This means you would have 20 TO's of a single table, each being linked to a repliers records ID via it's own foreign key. But since it's the same table can an ordinary summary report be made simply by sorting on the answers in the related table.

I have made you a tiny template, not covering every 20 questions, but only 6 ...since it's just donkey work to make the rest. Take a look and do not hessitate to ask further!

--sd

Survey.zip

[seraph_nyc]

Hi, thanks.

The database is already made and yes I have like something like 20 self joins that keep track of the counts. It counts well but it displays all the choices in the portal. for instance if I have a portal it will have the same response with the count next to it like 100 times. I need for it to show only one response. Somehow I need a field set to one and a self join. I just don't understand how the ONE part works. Also I have each field as one question, each re ponce separated by either a comma or a carriage return. I am going to separate by CR for the self join

Edited April 26, 2007 by Guest

[comment]

I think you could benefit from reading these two threads:

http://fmforums.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/180113/

http://fmforums.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/183639/

Søren: I think your demo goes against everything I know - and I learned a large part of it from you!

[seraph_nyc]

Thanks I think I need to start over and script out the info.

[Søren Dyhr]

Søren: I think your demo goes against everything I know - and I learned a large part of it from you!

Yikes! Do you think I'm going senile??? Or should I pride myself with actually accomplishing a fair doze of "Socratic Noise"???

--sd

[comment]

I cannot make a diagnosis from here, but when I saw your file I felt certain you were replaced by a pod person.

[Søren Dyhr]

individual survival with no thought given to the civilizations they conquered or the resources they squandered

Then it's regression to Queue/Genx'ish youth driven replys, kind of trotskist permanent revolution for the revolutions sake - oh dear! But admitted there's a lot more punch in Bruce's template here:

http://www.fmforums.com/forum/showpost.php?post/149069/

However after reading the refered threads and further consideration does neither your replies nor Bruce's template have a cure for solving what really is the problem here...

2) Armani

Gucci

They are delimited

http://www.surveymonkey.com/help/HelpFrame.asp?P=QuestionOverview%2Easp

The question goes to what measures could be taken to avoid the data entered as the surveymonkey calls "Open Ended Essay" ...this is why I provided my template with portalrows in plural!

I'm fully with you when you speak of a many2many structure having the persons asked in one table, the replies in a join table and finally a third table for the questions. This is the basic structure I would use as well, and when it comes to it, would I let my tabbed layout set a global value as the other leg on a multicriteria relation, so I only would be needing 3 foreignkey fields in the join.

I would maintain the tabbed layout, but the questions would arrive via a cartesian relation, in a cut up portal.

Now I haven't experimented with Fabrice Nordmann's Objects mechanincs enough to know if you can sniff which of the tabs is shown at present, so my initial thought goes to this method:

http://www.fmforums.com/forum/showpost.php?post/225429/

But perhaps you should "template"'e yourself out of this, before I tweak my original?? It seem like this pod person who have taken shelter in my skin, reads better than you???

--sd

Edited April 27, 2007 by Guest

[comment]

I am not going to suggest a preferred user interface, because there are too many unknown factors here that could influence my choices.

However after reading the refered threads and further consideration does neither your replies nor Bruce's template have a cure for solving what really is the problem here

I am not at all convinced that is the case. In fact, I am not even sure what is the case here. Is the subject supposed to list his three favorite designers? That would provide three answers to the same question. Is the subject being asked to rank a list of five designers? That could be the same thing, or it could be five separate questions (each giving a different weight to the answer).

Ultimately, I think these surveys need to be designed backwards. You need to know what type of results are expected, and from that build the answerbase that can provide such results. The presentation layer is the last thing on the agenda (though very likely the most difficult one).

P.S. I think you should leave other people out of this, esp. when they are not here to defend themselves.

[Genx]

I don't know who would select Gucci twice in the first place...

On the same note, why would you want to display the same information twice in a portal instead of once with a counter?

[Søren Dyhr]

Is the subject supposed to list his three favorite designers?

No I think they just serve as examplifliers - isn't the question going on how to prevent "essays" to confuse any kind counting, and not so much else? I suggested some incomplete interface measures to avoid it ...seeing at the same time a potential exaggerated use of selfjoins, to which I suggested a use of real summaries instead.

You're similar incompletly expecting all surveys when it comes to databases, follows some of the matrix thingy's found on the Surveymonkey site, which I fully understand ...but it's a biased view from a structuralist, who know his way around filemaker and couldn't dream of squeezing down a borrowed prejudice model, instead of thinking and planning up his own before implementing it.

When it comes to filemaker is the pulling thru the normal forms, probably more rare than with other tools, due to the learning curve is flatter than most other tools availiable. To be realistic is a lot of filemaker solutions made enirely without paper modelling behind. This gives on the other hand a fair share of oops more, when a solution is crash tested.

--sd

[seraph_nyc]

Ok,

the question asked is what is your favorite designer

person one answers Gucci

Armani

Person two Gucci

And so on. I need a way of

a) filtering the results based on a demographic which I have already done using calc fields and a self join thru the calc fields.

I need a way of listing the count and the name of each response. So I can see how many Male from 18-24 in region #1 like a designer or Brand etc.

The Filter I use is a radio button that selects the question and then self joins. So in total there are check box for the demographics and a radio box for the question

I cant get the portal to work right. I have it count the number of response from the self join and display them but if armani is selected 37 times it will show all 37. I only need to show it once.

[comment]

The easy way (in Filemaker) is to do this thru a printed summary report, instead of a "live" on-screen view thru a portal. I am not saying it cannot be done in a portal, only that it can be much more difficult.

In your example, you would (a) find the answers that came from the required demographic, and ( subsummarize them by response (or by age group, then response - or by gender, then age group, then response). Deleting the body part from the report layout will leave you with the summaries only.

[seraph_nyc]

Hi,

I was able to do it. The problem was how I had made the self joins. I had one table as the main. then I had a self join to filter the demographics and display the info in the main. Then I had another self join from the main table for the responses to get a count. Then I displayed that in a portal on the main layout. Worked out well. thanks for all the help. I am able to had a very fluid database with fairly open responses and since it separate multiple responses with a Cr it becomes a multi key relationship.