General Information On XML vs CDML

[tpoint]

I am a rigorous FMP developer but have avoided web publishing (except instant wp).

I now need to investment the time to learn custom publishing.

Here are three questions that maybe someone can give an opinion on:

1 Can the newly touted XML/XSL combo replace the CDML tag route completely?

2 Is CDML going to survive and thrive (is it adequately supported by 3rd party companies?)

3 Honestly, if you were starting out to learn web development as a career, which would you choose...XML or CDML and if, "you need both", why?

Multiple postings and long dialogs appreciated. Thanks.

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[Keith M. Davie]

I found myself in a situation where I needed to develop FMP db's for the web. (Mac/FMPro 4.0v3) When I started, without knowing anything about development for the web, I developed a solution using scripts as if it were going to be put on the web. When I completed that I needed to find out about development for the web so I learned to write html (not how to use an editor program). Then I read about a thousand pages of cdml and FMP materials, stuff which comes with the program and available texts. Next I started to write some custom-publishing format files and was having immediate success, until I hit a wall because of one line of code that was not in anything that I had read or any of the examples which I had tried to that point. The lack of good referencing and good presentation of cdml has been a huge obstacle for me to overcome, and I can speak only for myself. But I have continued on, and it becomes clearer and a bit easier each day. So in a way, I fit question three, and I have chosen to wrestle with the cdml. I am making progress. It happens in spurts.

In regard to question 2, whether cdml survives/thrives or not is not relevant to my accomplishing my goals using FMP 4.0v3, which is what I have. As to 3rd party company support, I suppose that depends upon what ones needs are. I have not yet looked into those areas, but I imagine that I will be able to handle the problems which will come up at that time, should I decide to use third party products. As a result of my attitude I don't dwell on that issue. When I accomplish my goal, and if I decide that I need third party products and they are not available, then I am certain I will be able to develop something to meet those needs using FMP 4.0v3.

In regard to your question 1, my goal is to get a simple yet elegant solution. I am not using javascript, I can learn that later if I find it will be useful to enhance my solution, and I can make changes/updates/edits to everything. I am not concerned with learning XML at this time either. I can learn that later if I find it will be useful to enhance my solution. If you have the luxury of time, you can learn all of these. For much the same reason, I do not want to upgrade to FMP 5.0 (any version) at this time. It would get in the way of the time which it is taking to accomplish the goals I have set, and which goals I will achieve using what I have. FMP 5 or later can come later when I have time to devote to learning all of its bells and whistles.

Hope you find my expression of my experiences and reasons useful in your decision making.

Keith M. Davie

[yafreax]

xml will probably not completely replace cdml, so cdml will be fine to learn. It's easier to learn anyway, especially to start. But xml will become more widely used because it is much faster and one of the most talked about languages recently. Some taut it as being the biggest thing since java. Time will tell on that one.

I'm kind of in the same boat as the last Kieth. I learned CDML and HTML strictly for publishing databases on line. Now i'm doing both databases and help with Websites (other then for the sole purpose of throwing up a database) for pay.

I'm a believer that the more you can learn, the more you can do, the less replaceable you are, the more money you make, the more free time you can eventually have. It's just one long process. So... i'm learning XML and CDML and Lasso now ( i know lasso's not a language, but it implements language).

As for another thing that Kieth said, he is 100% right. The CDML references are very limited and you basically have to learn that on your own. I'm with him when he says that CDML becomes clearer everyday. Especially when you have forums such as this one. With XML you will have a wider variety of resources at hand.

It is possible that XML will eventually overtake CDML because it can do more than just filemaker stuff. CDML is a language that only works with filemaker. XML to my understanding is just a new language such as Javascript, etc.

Well, speaking from my own experience, if you need something quick, go with CDML, it's easier to learn. But then, after you are comfortable with it, move on.

Jeremy

p.s.- Kieth, I work with FM5.0 and have never worked with anything else, but from what i've gathered, there's not really much else to it that 4.x can't do, so I'd agree that you should just stick to 4.x until something huge happens.

[fishma]

As per your postscript...I disagree... Upgrade to FMP5 now. I made the switch to 5 because that's what my client was using. I was reluctant at first, but now I can't believe I was ever the least bit hesitant. It's just like getting a new tool box with new tools. The box is exactly the same, the tools are the same, but there are new tools in the box. The enhancements are very nice. Little things make developing a better experience. And the little things add up. I'm not going to get into the detail of what's new in FMP5. You can cousult www.filemaker.com for those details. I'm just going to let you know from a developers point of view, FMP5 is worth the upgrade.

I sound like an advertisement...

Clark!

[WBlanchard]

I was fortunate enough that my company sent me to the FMP DevCon in Palm Springs. They had four sessions dedicated to FMP, XML, and the Web. After what I saw, XML is the way to go. It deals with the dynamic nature of relational db much better. In one example I saw, an XML call was made to am FMP Layout with a portal on it. XML got all the data including the portal data, and it was then displayed on a web page. On top of that, you can get data from multiple XML compliant source and more easily combine that data in to a single page presentation.

I am just now getting a chance to delve into the XML book, so I wish I could say more, but, I think XML is going to become more of the more powerful tools for bringing database information to the web.

Just my 2 cent

[yafreax]

i had the opportunity to take part in an XML class from New Horizons in Dallas recently. It was just an intro to XML, but you have to take the intro before you can take the other ones. Of course, it focused nothing on XML and Filemaker. But for now, from what i can see, it's not worthwile YET. Basically, 33% of what is needed for XML to work most effeciently is not yet complete. Beyond that, another 25% (or so) is not yet practical, and in order for XML to display in the way you want it to on the web takes 3 times the work. As a way for database exchange, sure, it could be very useful because of it's speed of exhange for larger companies and industries. Filemaker is making a huge deal about this... and it will make a huge impact, but it can't properly be evaluated yet, because a major portion of it is still incomplete. Proof of this is the development of XHTML, which basically is a way for the creators to stall even longer until they can figure out exactly how they want to finish this "amazing new web technology." I have not thrown it out the window yet, but i've put it aside for a while...

just my 2 1/2 cents

Jeremy

( if anyone is interested, i will expand on any of this in this forum, not to say that my oppinion is the best, just if your curious)

[pcourterelle]

Like others above, I've done a tremendous amount of FMP development and have been working on web development for about two years, off and on. HTML and CDML have been fine so far but where to go from here? If XML has development limitations as described above, what about PHP? I'm intrigued by PHP's ability to interact with dbs (which is really what it's for I gather). How do XML an PHP compare? Are there advantages of using one over the other? Where do Perl or Javascript fit in to this equation, or do they?

Finally, I find it somewhat disconcerting that a web site devoted to FMP would move to mySQL..obviously they've outgrown FMP and required better performance...but there is an irony here...

sorry to have more questions than answers...

cheers

Phil Courterelle

Production Coordinator

Calgary Herald

[Anatoli]

RE: HTML and CDML have been fine so far but where to go from here?

Lasso 6?

[pcourterelle]

Anatoli...I hear you...but if the corporate IT folks set the standard to using Apache as the web server, Lasso 6 is not much use.

merry christmas to all....

phil courterelle

calgary herald

[Anatoli]

Why not?

Lasso connector works IMHO for IIS and Apache