Help creating new filemaker information system?

[swetha]

I am hoping that some kind soul could help us to understand the issues associated with upgrading and evolving the computer system currently used at our research lab.

Currently we use Filemaker Pro 4.1, and simply open a filemaker database file from a shared location on any of our 10 client machines (running Mac OS X 10.3.3, Mac OS 9.2.2, and Windows XP). There is no automation of any sort. If you need information from our database, you open up the file and manually look it up.

The system we are envisioning will have multiple components.

First, we want to migrate the 4.1 database into a newer version of filemaker.

Once that migration has occurred, we want to store that database on one of our client computers and effectively turn it into a server for the database. We would prefer that this server be one of our Mac G4 computers running OS 10.3.3.

Next, we want to be able to query information in the filemaker database from a simple GUI that will reside on all of the clients. So, we aren't looking to use the Filemaker interface, but instead will have a system-specific GUI that will give system users a front end that has all the fields and options that would be necessary in a format that streamlines user interaction with the system .

We are thinking of using Java to create the GUI and query/access program, so that our code is portable, and therefore could be used on our clients which, as stated above, will be running three different OSs: Mac OS 9.2.2, Mac OS 10.3.3, and Windows XP Professional.

So, that is background on the problem. Now, we have some questions:

1) Is it possible to do what we are proposing?

2) Is the migration from Filemaker Pro 4.1 to newer versions of Filemaker Pro or Server difficult?

3) What query language does filemaker use, and would it be possible to include it as part of a java-based program and GUI for our clients to access a database that resides on a Mac OS 10.3.3-based G4 server?

4) Is there anything else we are missing in this process?

5) Not so much a question, but any additional information or insight you might be able to share with us to help this process would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot for your time and any help that you can provide us.

Sincerely,

The Research Team

[stanley]

In the order of your questions:

1. Everything you've suggested is well within FileMaker's capabilities.

2. The migration from 4.1 to 5.5/6 is not difficult, migrating to 7 is a bit more work, due to the changes in file structure, etc...

3. FileMaker is cross-platform, so there's no need to create a Java GUI. Any interface created within FileMaker will work fine with the three operating systems you're using. I've got a number of clients using an even more varied mix, and it all works fine. You can also access a hosted FM solution via a web browser...

4&5 I'd recommend you host the solution using FileMaker Server (your G4 would be fine for this.) In planning, remember that FileMaker Server likes to have a machine all to itself. A separate copy of FileMaker Pro is required for each client machine, unless you want to go with accessing from a browser, but that takes away much of the power & automation of FileMaker.

Finally, remember that FileMaker 7 is a different beast from all previous versions. While you could mix & match earlier versions, with FMP7 all machines must be running FMP7...

You'll get plenty of free help here on the FM Forums, and if you need a professional, there are plenty of those too (and I'm one of them.)

-Stanley

[Ender]

You should look into volume licensing; there are "subscription" options that allow you to upgrade later for free, by paying more up front. This will make upgrading to 7 easier when you stop running OS9.

Also, even though FM Server is a lot more expensive than FM Client, it is a good investment. It's faster, more stable, and can handle automated backups.

[swetha]

Thanks for your prompt reply, Stanley. Now I have a few more questions for you, or anyone else who might be able to help.

1) Will we be able to create password protected login screens on the clients to ensure that only members of the lab will have access to the information contained in the database?

2) Is the interface highly customizable? We are envisioning having a column of buttons that will greet the user once he or she logs in that allows he/she to choose a particular form, view, or set of data fields in which he/she can enter OR view data. This is necessary because we will be storing various information about people who participate in our research. We will have demographic information as well as experiment-specific information that we want to keep segregated from each other, at least in terms of user access to them.

3) Will we be able to create custom reports from the database? In particular, we will have data stored in the database that needs to be exported in order to run statistical analysis on an external program. Specifically, we use SPSS, but as long as we have the capacity to output reports or data in customizable ways, into a file format that can be read by SPSS (e.g., Excel) then we would be sufficiently happy.

Okay, those are all the questions that we have come up with in response to Stanley's kind reply.

Any further information would be appreciated. Thanks again, everyone.

Regards,

The Research Team

[Vaughan]

Yes, all of those things are possible (even in FMP 4.1).

Your only challenge is that FMP 7 is not available for MacOS 9 and earlier. It might be time to upgrade those clients to MacOS X.

[stanley]

1. Password-protection is built into FileMaker (and you can add your own on top, but in FMP 7 it's not really necessary.) So yes to that.

2. The interface is totally customizable, with the exception of Flash-type glitter (and who really needs that?) You can do pretty much anything you can think of. FileMaker is much more powerful than it might first appear. Three years ago I even prototyped a video-editing application in FileMaker...

3. You can export in a number of ways in FMP; certainly to Excel.

-Stanley

[swetha]

Thanks all.

We downloaded Filemaker 6, and now I am in the process of trying to create the system. I am being strongly encouraged to get this up and running very soon, and I am confirming that I can do the things I would like to do with the program.

I am considering creating individual databases for the following: Participant Demographics, Participant Data by Experiment, Experiment Information for Each Experiment.

I want each of these database files to be linked to a frontend database file that allows users to select a particular database file via buttons, or a dropdown menu. The options available should be tailored to the priveleges associated with the particular user accessing the database.

1) How do we achieve our goal? Or should we approach the problem differently given our goals?

2) Given that data of interest is dispersed among various database files, would we be able to choose particular fields contained in different files, and export them as a single export file? If so, how?

3) Would we be able to automatically update fields in other database files, or within the same database, based upon input in other fields? I am thinking of things like automatically changing the monetary balance associated with an experiment upon entering information into certain fields in a database file.

Well, those were a few questions that arose in our attempt to start to design the system as we desire to. Your help is well appreciated, everyone. Thanks!!

Warmest regards,

The Research Team

[Vaughan]

"I am being strongly encouraged to get this up and running very soon"

From my FMP development experience, I'd allow 3 to 6 months development time for a major project. Double the time if the person doing the development isn't already up to speed with FMP.

I'd also be doing it in FMP 7, not FMP 6. The enhanced security features in FMP 7 alone make FMP 6 obsolete, and it's almost as much work converting an existing FMP 6 solution (and adding the enhanced features and removing the now unnecessary kludges and workarounds) as it is to rebuild a system in FMP 7 from scratch.

[Reed]

Or you could do it how I did when I got started with FM and just get basic functionality working and implement it almost imediately. Then just do all your developement work on the live system. (I like to live dangerously) Just make sure you have a good backup scheme in place in case you have to revert after you do something dumb like delete or modify important records. (I've done this) Our system has been in use for two years now, and I've just now stopped making changes to it.

Of course now I'm completely starting from scratch in 7, but I won't implement 7 until I get everything how I want it. (Server isn't available yet for 7 anyway)

Dana

[Ken Newell]

If you are going to use FM6 because of your OS 9 clients I could put togehter a sample of how I did that it however requires several plugins to function correctly and the security within FM7 would be the ideal way to go. Let me know and I can work on putting something together as it is not ready. What type of research and where are you located?

FileMaker Version: Dev 7

Platform: Mac OS X Panther

[swetha]

Hi Ken,

We are a lab doing cognitive psychology research at a college in Claremont, California. We went ahead and downloaded FM7 Pro to test things out. We are not against using it, it is just that one of the clients we are using is an old G3 that we do not believe will support an upgrade to 10.3.3. We imagine we can just ignore that client and take advantage of the improvement in FM7.

Ken, how might one design the kind of database we have outlined using FM7? If you want to provide us with some examples of things that would be great.

Another thing that we have not asked is about using FM as the basis for a dynamic appointment system. We are envisioning choosing a particular experiment, a date, and a time, and having that information matched against researchers stored schedules to see who would be the best person to assign to a given experimental session. We would need to store and update appointments, as well as dynamically assign researchers to appointments. Would this be possible with filemaker? We would assume it is, but we just need to confirm that this can be our one-stop solution to all of our lab's current needs.

Thanks again everyone.

Regards,

The Research Team

[stanley]

Research Team:

Don't believe what the box says. I've got a G3/333 Powerbook running 10.2.6, and FMP 7 runs fine on it - a little slow, yes, but it doesn't malfunction, at least not that I've seen over the past 6 weeks. And I'm developing on that platform, too!

Scheduling is probably the trickiest thing to do, mainly because there are so many variables, especially when it comes to how to display the information. You can design some very cool scheduling systems with FileMaker (I've done a couple) but it can take a fair amount of time, money or both.

-Stanley

[RDecker]

> We went ahead and downloaded FM7 Pro to test things out. We are not against using it, it is just that one of the clients we are using is an old G3 that we do not believe will support an upgrade to 10.3.3. We imagine we can just ignore that client and take advantage of the improvement in FM7.

- - -

I'm running FM7Dev on a Blue & White G3, 300 MHz with OSX 10.3.3 and it works just fine. (I think FM will run under 10.2.6 as well.) *Some* G3s can't run 10.3.3--or at least that's what Apple says--e.g., no G3 upgrade cards. But you can still run FM with 10.2.6.

[swetha]

Thanks for the info about the G3, we will look into upgrading it in the near future, but for now it is the least used client and shouldn't hinder our move to FM7.

We have a question as regards what kind of database management system filemaker uses. From the name of the program, it would seem as though it may simply use a collection of flat files for object persistence, is this true? Or is it relational, object-relational, or object-oriented in nature? When answering this, could you give us a more detailed sense of how filemaker achieves object/data persistence. Thank you all for your continued help in this thread.

Regards,

The Research Team

[stanley]

Research Team:

FileMaker is a fully relational database system. Um... object-oriented?... It ain't C++, if that's what you're asking. As far as the inner workings of FileMaker are concerned, you won't even get that answer out of FMI, let alone us grunts in the trenches. Suffice to say that FileMaker works, and it works well.

Do not look at the trees so much, or else you may not notice the forest.

-Stanley

[Ken Newell]

Everything you would like to do is possible in FM. We have been using FM for many years and I have been here almost 6 so we have lots of stuff in FM. We track test results, integrate data from tests, track support requests, track inventory and service repairs. Everything is accessed from a single login module currently in FM6 but we are in the planning stages of migration to FM7. Where to start? That'

s a good question. My recommendations are:

1) Since this is new development start right off in FM7 this avoids later migration issues

2) Download and read EVERY technical brief on the FileMaker web site. I do mean every one including those about migration and IN PARTICULAR the ones regarding security.

3) Apply sound RDB theory to your design. Think about your process that you want your database to store.

4) Don't short change FM by running peer-to-peer. It is possible life is much better with a sever.

5) Ditch the G3. I know others so it is fine. My experience tells me otherwise. I like G4s and up and I like lots of RAM. I prefer Macs over PCs because they are just less of a PITA (Pain in the @$$) to me so I can focus on the fun things in developing in FM.

6) Consider joining the FSA (FileMakers Solutions Alliance) If this is to be your development environment you need to make an investment in your knowledge. I know budgets are always tight in a university setting but you can become a subscriber for 249.00 per year. It includes a copy of FM7 and FM Mobil 2.1, access to the FSA tech talk the software only is worth the ticket to the show.

7) Consider going to the Developers Conference (DEVCON). I know PHX in Aug is hot but the information shared there is very, very, very valuable.

8) Plan, Plan, Plan and look at the big picture of what you want to make happen in your FM world. The ease of use of FM causes one to want to quickly develop and that is it's great strength; but it can be a weakness if you did not plan what you are building. I've built some items into my system long before they become visible to the end user because of my planning. It's like building a highway bridge. Notice how many times they pour footings on either end and built to the middle. A non construction type person like me looks at it and goes WOW! The bridge lines up. Of course it does that is how the engineer planned it. I work in modules; sub-worlds within my FM world to help manage the process.

9) Remember your database is a mirror of your business process or in your case a reflection of your research process.

10) Always remember that your system is dynamic, fluid, ever changing landscape as your needs change.

Sorry for the long post but that my 2 cents worth. You can always email off the forum should you have more questions.

FileMaker Version: Dev 7

Platform: Mac OS X Panther

[Ken Newell]

Also in response to getting a VLA for FileMaker you might want to contact the FM rep. Since you are in Southern California I think Arne Anderson would be the contact. If not, he can point you in the right direction. He can be reached at [email protected]

FileMaker Version: Dev 7

Platform: Mac OS X Panther

[Leader]

I discovered a pecularity when converting FM.fp4 files to FM.fp7, at least under WinXP: It has suffix options for sucking in .fp6, .fp5, .fp3... but not .fp4. If I remember correctly, I renamed the .fp4 files to .fp5 (or possibly .fp3) and things went swimmingly.

Depending on your time frame, you might opt for 7, but to my frustration I found serious lack-of-documentation problems. If you choose to go with 6, I'd suggest using the XML/XSLT interface so that you'll hypothetically be steps closer to what come next.

If you want to tweak user interfaces, use JavaScript (not Java) within your HTML pages. For example, JS could do validation of data entry before sending it over the network.

A Soapbox about HTML Editors: (separate and apart from database considerations)

[-Queue-]

fp4? FileMaker 4 used fp3 as its extension. Where would you get an fp4 from?

[Leader]

That's a good question which we kicked around here. It dawned on us that we'd seen .fp4's more than once. One suggestion was that someone thought Claris had prerelease .fp4 extensions- but he'd had a couple of (virtual) brain seizures since then.

Since the files came out of a Mac client, another hypothesis is that it might have been Mac developoers being 'good citizens' attempting to extrapolate a valid name.

However, we notice that .fp4's open right up under Windows, although it's always possible that's the result of a manual entry.

Any other ideas?