Flappy Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 We just tried out connecting to our office from our store remotely (sic?). It was a nightmare trying to sort out all of the IP issues with having DSL on both ends, and once we connected, it was very slow (unsuably so). The solution we are runningat the moment is an old warhorse in FMP 6.0. I am currently building a shiny new model, but am wondering if the old one is slow due to newtork issues, or if it was programmed by an idiot (me). It has always been very zippy and quite nice to use over the office network. Is there a basic design strategy I should be aware of for this type of application? On the hardware/network side what kinds of issues should I look at ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Well, there are many things that affect performance, including the complexity of the structure and layouts, the complexity and size of graphic elements used, the types of operations being run, and the speed and configuration of the client and host computer. But the biggest factor is indeed network speed. Consider that the speed of a local Ethernet network is typically between 10Mb and 100Mb, and the speed of DSL is typically around 1-2Mb or slower. There are sometimes ways to optimize the solution for running over a WAN, but even this won't make it perform as fast as on the local network. My suggestion is to: 1. Upgrade to FM8.5, as this will definately perform better over the WAN. 2. If that's still not fast enough, upgrade your DSL (or switch to cable) to 1.5Mb or faster. This seems to be acceptable for most operations (with the exception of some types of reports or batch operations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 (edited) Hi Ender is right but... Just wanted to point out (as i have had this issue), it is the upload speed and contention ratio of your dsl that is quite critical. Doesn't matter if you have 10mbps on the site drawing on the data if you only have 250kbps upload from the site you are drawing the data from... oh and this can be especially bed if you have an email application sending large files on the same line!!! Oh and this maybe an instance to consider seperation model tactics in drawing on the data so you are not loading all of the layouts etc everytime you draw on a file. just some thoughts Edited November 9, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Good point. For the host, the upload speed is most important. For the client, the download speed is most important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 (edited) a further point that may be of use as you may already know: there are 2 types of dsl that i know of Adsl = Asymetrical DSL = Greater Download than Upload 2 mb Adsl is usually upto 2mb down and upto 125kb up Sdsl = Symetrical DSL = Equal Download and Upload 2mb Sdsl is usually upto 2mb down & up Edited November 9, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappy Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 I am in the process of writing the new version in 8.5, so we were trying to get set up in anticipation of it being ready. There will be only four to six users at this point, maybe as many as ten down the road. Would there be any advantage to going to FM Server ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 You'll need Server for hosting to more than 5 connections. Server also performs better and has scheduled backups built-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I dont think it is a good idea not to have FM Server in any office environment. For one thing your data is in danger in that kind of setup and you have probably noticed stupid things (in 6 ... as i have never gone back too do not know if still present) like if the user hosting the file moves or holds on to the scroll bar... everyone else gets stuck... or performance grinds to a halt if the host has too many aps open. I would only ever use server in a shared environment it is a different animal all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappy Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 We are very small in that we probably only have a maximum of three users working at a time, so we have had very few issues. We are, however expanding greatly our expectations from Filemaker, so it seems server is the way to go. I have worked withe Filemaker for years, but have no clues with server. Are there programming strategy differences I should be aware of ? I have done a huge amount of work on our new solution, but I will do it all again if I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 The closest comparison i can give you between client to client sharing and server to client is that working on server is similar to opening the file on the local computer... the performance difference is imeasurable (although im sure you could measure it) You will probably find that you need to make no modifications to your solution. best Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 You can download a trial version of server from filemaker i think ... check it out. Make sure you follow the install instructions closely... you should really install it on a machine without filemaker installed on it as only server can be running. FileMaker Pro cannot open files if it is also hosting them with server on the same machine as this will severely damage the files. (you could actually install on the same machine as fmpro is on to test but do not run them at the same time... BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU DO. (this is bad advice but you may have no option) Oh and the cheapest most reliable way of hosting is on a mac mini. Also make sure you use the open remote... method of opening the files There are many other things to server so be warned check out the server forum. If you follow the instructions it can be very simple to setup. best Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappy Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 Thank you very much. I will begin the quest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hey Stu, Although a Mac Mini may work for running Server, it is not an ideal machine. The main problem is the hard drive speed, which is particularly slow on the Mini. Remember that the hard drive speed is one of the main bottlenecks for performance with FileMaker Server, so using a fast hard drive is especially important. Somewhere around here we've discussed specs for server hardware and software configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) Hi Ender, I would have to agree with you. I just work with a number of 3 user companies who cannot afford a server per say and can just about scrape together to afford the server software and a cheap host machine... (the mac mini is good as after setup you do not need a screen/keyboard/mouse as VNC/Remote Desktop can do it reliably. There may be a better low end machine than a mac mini but this is the one i have found most affordable and as it is on osx the operating system is pretty stable. How do you investigate HD speed i have always looked at processor but am obviously mistaken... i actually don't know how to compare Harddrives themselves? best Stuart Edited November 10, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Although I'm not an expert in hard drive hardware, I've done some research and had experience over the years with the various offerings. There are a couple of factors for drive performance, including the drive speed (RPMs) and the access speed (bus). You can find the drive speed of Apple's hardware on the Tech Specs section of their Specifications pages. The drive type is also listed, which can be used to find the access speed. The Mini has a 5400rpm Serial ATA drive. The access speed for this type of drive isn't bad (around 1.2Gbps) but the drive speed is not that good. On the other hand, a Mac Pro comes with a 7200rpm Serial ATA 3.0 drive, which is faster with the drive speed and the access speed (around 3Gbps). There are a number of other drive/bus options, including various flavors of SCSI, and firewire. You can compare the bus speeds for all of these here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths#Computer_buses_.28drive.29 Also, although I can't seem to locate the information about it at the moment, I seem to recall that some bus types (SCSI and Fiber Channel) perform better for database applications because they send the read and write data asynchronously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I should add that the use of a striped RAID improves access speed significantly, as shown in this recent report from MacWorld: http://www.macworld.com/2006/10/features/macprohd/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Taylor Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 This is really good stuff. Thanks for putting in the time on this one. I really really apreciate that font of knowledge you just spouted its has put me straight on a number of things that i had wrongly thought and makes my foundations more solid. best stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 No problem Stuart. I know it's hard enough to get good at the programming and design sides of FileMaker, then to have to take on the hardware stuff too adds to the challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbdom.com Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Hello! dbdom.com can offer you a complete dedicated FileMaker Server 8 Advanced system hosted in our SAS 70 Type II Certified facilities - You will get a dedicated platform capable of 125 databases including the Instant Web Publishing portal with complete remote control for $80/month - visit http://www.dbdom.com and click on FileMaker Server and Server Advanced - All of the major FileMaker Developers host with dbdom.com - we are a FileMaker Associate Member and Lasso Professional Alliance corporate partner – http://www.dbdom.com [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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