Anatoli is in trouble -- Cookies and FileMaker.

[Anatoli]

Cookies and FileMaker.

It seems to me, that FileMaker and Lasso (WebCompanion is Lasso based) are absolutely not reliable with cookies and MSIE.

I have 2 experiences. www.golivehq.com (Lasso based) is not working with any of my MSIE on 3 machines, but it is always good in NN4 – NN6. www.golivehq.com is recently down for maintenance.

Second is my own experience. I know, that MSIE does not like to write cookie on page and processed the same cookie on the same page. On second or different page it is quite OK.

I recently rewrote auto-logon system to our PR portal based on cookies.

I’ve got all sort of results from never working to "looks like it’s working OK". In fact, when everything was in cache (proxy or local) it looks like it is working. Couple of refreshes and the thing didn’t work at all.

Has someone experience with FM WC and cookies? I can test for auto-log and when it fails I will offer manual log. No problem. But it looks strange, when it never works without the cached page.

Thanks for any reply!

[proton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anatoli:

Cookies and FileMaker.

It seems to me, that FileMaker and Lasso (WebCompanion is Lasso based) are absolutely not reliable with cookies and MSIE.

I have 2 experiences.

www.golivehq.com

(Lasso based) is not working with any of my MSIE on 3 machines, but it is always good in NN4 – NN6.

www.golivehq.com

is recently down for maintenance.

Second is my own experience. I know, that MSIE does not like to write cookie on page and processed the same cookie on the same page. On second or different page it is quite OK.

I recently rewrote auto-logon system to our PR portal based on cookies.

I’ve got all sort of results from never working to "looks like it’s working OK". In fact, when everything was in cache (proxy or local) it looks like it is working. Couple of refreshes and the thing didn’t work at all.

Has someone experience with FM WC and cookies? I can test for auto-log and when it fails I will offer manual log. No problem. But it looks strange, when it never works without the cached page.

Thanks for any reply!

---

Anatoli,

From what I read, they say that if Filemaker has the create cookie code on page A, you can not process or use the cookie, because it isn't created until that page is processed and you move to page B. Filemaker is funny that way. Are you using Filemaker to create the cookies? If not, even then you will probably still need a 'cached page' to allow time for filemaker to interact with the cookie.

Just a note: Microsoft also said that IE 6 has better cookie handling capabilities, but of course this is yet to be proven.

[Anatoli]

Thank you Proton.

It seems to me, that NN get the write to A and read from A working.

I am using just the FileMaker to do all cookies processing.

Funny thing, the only problems with cookies in MSIE seem to me originated in Lasso (and WC).

Even when Microsoft will make things better in v. 6, it is 3-5 years to wait for at last 80% users to switch to 6.

Still the challenge is on, can someone suggest some workaround?

Anatoli

[proton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anatoli:

Thank you Proton.

It seems to me, that NN get the write to A and read from A working.

I am using just the FileMaker to do all cookies processing.

Funny thing, the only problems with cookies in MSIE seem to me originated in Lasso (and WC).

Even when Microsoft will make things better in v. 6, it is 3-5 years to wait for at last 80% users to switch to 6.

Still the challenge is on, can someone suggest some workaround?

Anatoli

---

Anatoli,

You are right about users taking awhile to switch over, but look at it this way: IE represents about 75% of the market, so if it ain't working with IE, then you got a big problem. Do you absolutely have to create the cookie on the page and process it on the same page?

If that's absolutely necessary then you're in trouble. I haven't given it much thought, but here are a couple suggestions off the top of my head:

1) Use Javascript to create the cookie and assign the value, then just let Filemaker process it. This is your best bet really.

2) Maybe you can have the create cookie and assign value code on page A. Upon submission, it takes you to page B which is a redirect page (Meta refresh) or something, which processes the cookie and automatically takes you to page C (results page).

As I said these are just off the top of my head. You didn't specify exactly what action you need to do, so I can't be more specific. If you have any more information that you can give, maybe I can help you out. Hope this helps nonetheless.

Hey I just re-read your first post. The cookies are for an auto-login system. So what you are doing is giving the users an option to set a cookie, so that whenever they visit the site it will log them in automatically? Is that it? And if the cookie doesn't exist, then it offers them a manual login?

Because if that is it, then from the time they set the cookie, it should be on their machine, so when they revisit the site, they should not need a cached page at all. This kinda sounds like needing a cached page for generating dynamic value lists on the web. Is it that type of problem you are seeing?

[ June 27, 2001: Message edited by: proton ]

[ June 27, 2001: Message edited by: proton ]

[Anatoli]

Thank you for your help.

Actually the pages A and B are just examples.

I have problem with:

"I recently rewrote auto-logon system to our PR portal based on cookies."

2 cookies are being sent to browser with values "key" and "password".

On next visit, cookies are automatically read into corresponding fields.

If that is valid logon, everything goes to next page, if not, login form is presented.

This worked nicely on our tests. In live situation, it worked only if the user was supplied with pages from Cache. Never on web. The same, like the forum I did mentioned above. On that forum I am using Netscape 4 and 6 without any problems. It never worked during last year in MSIE.

So my conclusion is: cookies from FM or Lasso are not working; if they do work then only by mistake.

[proton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anatoli:

Thank you for your help.

Actually the pages A and B are just examples.

I have problem with:

"I recently rewrote auto-logon system to our PR portal based on cookies."

2 cookies are being sent to browser with values "key" and "password".

On next visit, cookies are automatically read into corresponding fields.

If that is valid logon, everything goes to next page, if not, login form is presented.

This worked nicely on our tests. In live situation, it worked only if the user was supplied with pages from Cache. Never on web. The same, like the forum I did mentioned above. On that forum I am using Netscape 4 and 6 without any problems. It never worked during last year in MSIE.

So my conclusion is: cookies from FM or Lasso are not working; if they do work then only by mistake.

---

Anatoli,

Oh, now I get it. When you set the cookies do you specify a lifetime for the cookies? It's Anatoli I'm talking about so I'm sure you do. If you don't then the cookie disappears. I don't see how the problem could be Filemaker or Lasso, or WC. The thing is that filemaker is creating the cookie, which is then just a text file on the system. Any program (not just filemaker) can access that cookie. So the problem is not the filemaker or the lasso. It's accessing the cookie.

Just a couple of observations:

If I want to use one cookie, then it would contain a user/password combination (concantation) which would read into the a field that compares with a user/password combination field in the user database (calculated, concantation text field).

Next, I would look at the lifetime setting of the cookie. When is it set to expire?

Hope this helps.

P.S. I definitely feel that the problem is IE solely and how it handles cooies. Filemaker and WC/Lasso are not the problem.

[ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: proton ]

[ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: proton ]

[Anatoli]

I am quite on the same conclusions. Even I am using 2 cookies, I am using the "concantation" actually even with 3rd static value. That works OK.

The cookies are set like this [FMP-SetCookie: key=Field: key, Expires=53000]

According FM documentation, 53 000 is in minutes -- more than a month.

What if MSIE is treating this number in seconds? Then it will expire much sooner, in half of a day. I will try that.

I am still not convinced about the fault lies solely in MSIE. Other sites like Adobe and this one works great with cookies.

Lasso and FM not, so I still have not 100% proof about MSIE full fault.

[proton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anatoli:

I am quite on the same conclusions. Even I am using 2 cookies, I am using the "concantation" actually even with 3rd static value. That works OK.

The cookies are set like this [FMP-SetCookie: key=Field: key, Expires=53000]

According FM documentation, 53 000 is in minutes -- more than a month.

What if MSIE is treating this number in seconds? Then it will expire much sooner, in half of a day. I will try that.

I am still not convinced about the fault lies solely in MSIE. Other sites like Adobe and this one works great with cookies.

Lasso and FM not, so I still have not 100% proof about MSIE full fault.

---

Okay here's where the de-bugging mode comes in. First, you are right, I would check to see if the expiry time is in minutes or seconds (I also forgot which it is ).

Next, I would set the key and password to one cookie concantenated, and I would get one of those cookie management programs (free from www.download.com or www.zdnet.com). These cookie programs allow you to see what cookies are on your system and some will allow you to view the values in the cookies. So I can verify that the cookie is there (i.e. not expired), and that it contains the appropriate value. Next I would create a sample test database that just has one field (userpass), and I would create a test login page to be an add new record page using this sample database.

When I go to the login page, it would create a record in my sample database using the value from the cookie. Once this works successfully, then filemaker is able to access and read my cookie. Try these and let me know what happens. Once you have this information I think we can solve your problem for sure.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: proton ]

[Anatoli]

Thanks.

I can see all cookies in NN6 and it is just text file for MSIE. Although the MSIE cookies have quite cryptic expire date.

I was testing my auto-log system similarly as you wrote and it was working OK on "localhost".

However - not in real situation. When I will have more time, I will start again from square 1, this time live on web and not on "localhost".

Anatoli

[proton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anatoli:

Thanks.

I can see all cookies in NN6 and it is just text file for MSIE. Although the MSIE cookies have quite cryptic expire date.

I was testing my auto-log system similarly as you wrote and it was working OK on "localhost".

However - not in real situation. When I will have more time, I will start again from square 1, this time live on web and not on "localhost".

Anatoli

---

Anatoli,

So when you run the login system on MSIE on localhost it works, but doesn't work on the web? That is indeed strange. Did you specify a location for the cookie? I know one of the options allows you to sometimes specify where you want the cookie located. Did you do that?

[Anatoli]

No, just plain cookies with name value and exp. date.

I will start again and do the step by step design, local, web, local, web...

It is strange, but the other (Lasso) site has the same problem. It was working reasonably well in MSIE. Then one day, without any changes on their site or on my machines the MSIE did not worked any more. I did erase all cookies. Nothing. I was always first time visitor.

So I am using Netscape for visits and everything is fine. MSIE -- doesn't work.

Thanks!

[proton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anatoli:

No, just plain cookies with name value and exp. date.

I will start again and do the step by step design, local, web, local, web...

It is strange, but the other (Lasso) site has the same problem. It was working reasonably well in MSIE. Then one day, without any changes on their site or on my machines the MSIE did not worked any more. I did erase all cookies. Nothing. I was always first time visitor.

So I am using Netscape for visits and everything is fine. MSIE -- doesn't work.

Thanks!

---

Yes that sounds good. Let me know what happens okay? I was checking your syntax, but it seems to be in order. You know they say Netscape is more forgiving of syntax than IE...This is really baffling. Let me know what the problem was okay? Sorry I couldn't help you sort it out.

[Anatoli]

Thanks!

We cannot influence mach of what WC is sending to the browsers, can’t we? I am following standard syntax and I always had problems with cookies-FM-WC-MSIE.

I even redesigned couple of my solutions using cookies to tokens and tokens are 100% reliable.

Oh well, one day....