FileMaker Runtime can works with SQL

[Osman]

Hi,

I wonder if FileMaker Runtime files works with sql databases lively?

Thanks

cabi

[Søren Dyhr]

No! unless you makes embedded applescripts deal with this application:

http://www.rtlabs.com/index.html

--sd

[GalainHH]

No! unless you makes embedded applescripts deal with this application

Is this sure? This means, in FM9 Full-Versions you can handle SQL Tables, that are integrated, but when runnig a FM-Runtime, this won´t work??

This is very important for me. I´m looking for a solution to update WebShops "directly". So I was interested in FM9 capabilities to handle SQL Tables.

So, this means, that FM9 is worthless for my Solution (regarding this particular feature) as I cannot sell my solution for "Runtime" Customers.

Is this right?

[HALBURN]

I just tried to get MySQL working with a test FM9 runtime build and it does not work.

This is very disappointing considering the fact the FileMaker has once again failed to release an thin client for developers.

[Steven H. Blackwell]

I am not surprised that it does not work. And be careful what you ask for in terms of a "thin-client."

How much, per seat, would you be willing to apy for it? And how much would you be willing to apy for its Server version?

Steven

[Søren Dyhr]

I am not surprised that it does not work

Neither am I!

So, this means, that FM9 is worthless for my Solution (regarding this particular feature) as I cannot sell my solution for "Runtime" Customers

I've always felt this kind of mom-and-pop-shop desires to circumvent lack of real programming knowledge utterly pennywise but pound foolish, after having spend ridiculous amount of time in an organization believing that IWP'ed solutions could replace the sale of real copies.

Why does such turnkey aspirations occure in peoples heads?? Are they gamblers?? Be prepared (the old scouts motto) instead of wishfull hoping oranges will land in your turban - How unfortunately it might feel, does it however demand spit and polish to get there!

--sd

[HALBURN]

I am not surprised that it does not work. And be careful what you ask for in terms of a "thin-client."

How much, per seat, would you be willing to pay for it? And how much would you be willing to pay for its Server version?

FM Thin client: $25-$50

FM Thin server: $100-$250

[The Shadow]

You must have lost a few zeros somewhere.

The server for thin clients will cost more than current FM server, not less. It will do everything the current server does, plus be capable of supplying the extra that the "thin" client would not be able to do. Or was your server price "per seat"?

[Genx]

Yeah I'd agree with the other guys.

Probably somewhere around 150 US a seat for server, nothing for the thin client though.

And with no development features, i think that would be more than reasonable.

[Vaughan]

The thing I've always liked about FM Server is that pricing isn't based on the seat count. It has a max of 250, and you can use as few or many as you want.

I can see what people *want* with thin clients etc, but I'd like to see these same people come up with a business plan for FMI that supports it. Because there is nothing in it for FileMaker Inc.

[Genx]

Well, put it this way - Its like distributing Windows with Visual Studio Professional Edition (costs about twice as much as the more expensive versions of vista) - That's the main thing that annoys me - Paying for unneeded stuff.

Id happily pay 2-3k for a true developer version, get rid of "Fm Pro" all together and integrate fairly cheap server licensing.... Oh well.

[Søren Dyhr]

Genx I largely dissagre with your last post here, and considering your young age - could you in my humble opinion benefit from a different perspective - read this:

http://www.ncsociology.org/sociationtoday/v21/merit.htm

What about competing on something else than price? I feel this intend of foilwrapping solutions is daft, when with a tool designed for workgroups ...think of yourself as slightly more accomplished than the avarage user, but let them for gods sake develop the meat and potato tasks themselves ...and come in to thier rescue when they've painted themselves into a corner of cluttered RG's, globals and repeating fields.

Well you might not keep you in enough cashflow to hire a cute secretary who you at christmas could pursuade up on the photo copyer ... but isn't there more to life than that??

I know that meritocracy is utopia, and that our position in life more is a matter of pampering and manners, than price or a gamblers luck.

Outside the old world does it mistakenly appear as if class and connections is of less importance, but how come that a baseball coach, who served in national guard intead of taking part in real combats have landed himself in the oval room.

http://edstrong.blog-city.com/corrupt_america_class_wealth__politics.htm

...and Paris Hilton have found an urge to fledge herself with the feathers of a rock/pop star as well.

So Genx don't Las Vegas on this, you need to buy you access to the influence, or even better! You need to let your customers pay the price.

--sd

[HALBURN]

You must have lost a few zeros somewhere.

Yes, some zeros are definitely missing because I already spent them with FileMaker for their overpriced FM9 upgrade. The upgrade price from FM8 should not be the same price as upgrading from FM7.

FileMaker is getting too greedy!

I would gladly pay three times money more for a developer version of FileMaker that would allow me to create a networkable runtime solution.

[HALBURN]

Here is an example of a job that I will either lose or be forced to do with an alternative to FileMaker.

I have a large hotel chain that is interested in a computerized time clock solution for each location. Each hotel will have a single computer with a touchscreen that they run the time clock on. None of the data needs to be sent anywhere but the managers of each hotel want the ability to access the time clock from their homes so they can make corrections and generate the weekly payroll reports.

Unless I implement some convoluted import and export system on the runtime solution my client would be forced to purchase multiple copies of FileMaker for each hotel. Even if they have to buy one copy for each hotel and use IWP, it's still too much money. FileMaker wants too big of a piece of the pie for me to compete with other developers using things like Flash and MySQL.

The bottom line is that I often compete against other solutions and on some projects I do not stand a chance of getting the work because of FileMaker's network runtime limitation.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Guest

[Søren Dyhr]

I often compete against other solutions and on some projects

Maybe you should only think of the runtime ONLY as a mean to get the foot in the door ...a path to a workgroup!

These kind of competitions, often is a test of who could afford to loose most money, the flash/java/html/php/MySQL solutions, have more severe debuggings to get thru, even if planned pretty sensible.

--sd

[Ano Nimus]

I would gladly pay three times money more for a developer version of FileMaker that would allow me to create a networkable runtime solution.

Only three times?

For FMI, the gained revenue from that would be drops in the ocean against the loss in revenue from not selling FMP licenses (apart from the single boxes) anymore. That loss, I suppose, would have to be reflected in the price of FM Developer versions, we might be looking at (wild guess from my side) a tenfold increase in price rather than threefold.

And what about the developers who don't want to create runtimes? FMI would need to develop a seperate version that excludes that feature or lose those buyers. More trouble/costs for them, not to mention having the added marketing issue of adding a new product to the product line.

Whilst thin clients would be great for developers/end-users, what's in it for FMI?

Note that I'm not qualifying nor quantifying FMIs 'greediness', I'm not privy to their profit margins. And who knows how much influence the hq at Cupertino has on the pricing policy?

[Genx]

"Whilst thin clients would be great for developers/end-users, what's in it for FMI?"

... a real developer base?

[Ender]

"Whilst thin clients would be great for developers/end-users, what's in it for FMI?"

... a real developer base?

Hey, don't I count??

[Genx]

Lol, by real I meant larger - though i am sure you are real :)

[Vaughan]

My experience is that professional quality solutions have to be networkable. People start off with one user, then as things scale up they want multiple users to be able to do the work.

I can't believe that a hundred bucks for a software license for FM Pro (even if it's per seat) is going to kill a deal for a commercial productivity application.

As for a large hotel chain baulking at buying licenses of FM Pro, sheesh. It's time for YOU developers to SELL THE BENEFITS of a networked solution.

[Søren Dyhr]

I can't believe that a hundred bucks for a software license for FM Pro (even if it's per seat) is going to kill a deal for a commercial productivity application

Indeed, there must be an error in the way the profit is supposed to be made!

--sd

[Ender]

As for a large hotel chain baulking at buying licenses of FM Pro, sheesh.

Yeah, what's HALBURN complaining about?? Wait, let me ask: "HALBURN, what are you complaining about?" One license per hotel is peanuts.

We've got hundreds of licenses, and we ain't no large hotel chain.

But a good [networked] database system can be a big productivity boon. It's about ROI (Return On Investment). Can the company save time (time=money) by using your database instead of whatever they are doing now? In the case of FileMaker vs. the other guy's system, which will be cheaper to develop and support in the long run?

[Ano Nimus]

"Whilst thin clients would be great for developers/end-users, what's in it for FMI?"

... a real developer base?

Maybe, but real developer base or end-user-toy, FMI will likely go for the model that yields most for themselves - I just can't see the financial benefit for FMI.

[HALBURN]

Yeah, what's HALBURN complaining about?? Wait, let me ask: "HALBURN, what are you complaining about?" One license per hotel is peanuts.

We've got hundreds of licenses, and we ain't no large hotel chain.

I can only assume that you did not read my post past the phrase "a large hotel chain".

My example was a solution for a digital time clock, not a database that they are networking and running the entire hotel chain on. I am talking about a simple solution running on a single computer with some sort of remote accessibility via a FM client or a web browser.

My point was that with the current FileMaker network runtime limitations this will most likely end up being done by someone using something other than FileMaker.

So let's take a look at the numbers and see who loses on this transaction? Let's say that I can buy a volume FMP license at $100 per copy. That means that FileMaker wants a $50,000 piece of the pie right off the top. Regardless if it's just being used for a time clock or running the entire hotel reservation system.

I probably could have made $30,000 on this transaction if I could create a FileMaker runtime that would run on a network. If FileMaker had a $25 thin client they could pull in around $12,000 on this transaction. Instead, neither of us make a nickel and we lose the project to someone using a free open source solution or a solution with a free networkable thin client.

[Steven H. Blackwell]

You know, fellows, they are well aware at FMI of this so-called "thin client" issue. It's looked at from time to time. It's as much a business and revenue model issue as it is a technical one.

I am not big personally on the thin-client concept, but, who knwos? Maybe one day it will appear. About the same time FMP disappears perhaps?

Steven

[HALBURN]

I think you guys have it backwards, FileMaker would make more money (not lose money) if they released a free thin client and a "slim" server.

They don't need to give away the entire farm but perhaps they could give us developers a few cows to work with instead of just a couple of chickens that only lay sterile eggs.

How about a free thin client that would work with a slim server in the $200 price range? A server that allowed a limited number of simultaneous users. Perhaps something like the FMS9A developer version but increased to maybe 5 users. Imagine the new places that FileMaker solutions would go where they currently are not!

[HALBURN]

I am not big personally on the thin-client concept

I am curious why you are not?

[Søren Dyhr]

FileMaker would make more money (not lose money) if they released a free thin client and a "slim" server

Where would you find data that substantiate this POW? This isn't a particuar terra nulius they would be trespassing here, Runtime Revolution and Servoy already roam here - isn't it a more sensible thing to build ones own customer segment instead hogging in someone elses??

--sd

[Steven H. Blackwell]

I am curious why you are not?

Too disruptive to the established customer base, and there is no basis for assuming that it would benefit FMI. As I said before, they do consider it from time to time. But, from a market mode perspective, it is very complex.

Steven

[Søren Dyhr]

But, from a market mode perspective, it is very complex

Indeed, further more might some of this rub off to their daughter companies:

illustrates the importance of designing new products around the needs of the user, not the demands of the technology. Too many technology firms think that clever innards are enough to sell their products, resulting in gizmos designed by engineers for engineers

...as well as this:

is that smart companies should sometimes ignore what the market says it wants today.

I've snipped it brutally, from this:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9302662

--sd