Canceling Filemaker! Yes or no?!

[John2710]

Hi developers.

I am CEO of medium size software developing company from EU. I write this post because I have serious thoughts about canceling Filemaker as our primary software deveoping tool.

Why? Let me explain.

In november 2008 we are about to launch very advanced solution for small and medium size companies. Currently we were making market research and all data shows that we have around 1300 - 1700 potential companies with approximately 4 - 6 users per company. That sums around 5000 to 10000 potential new users. So this is very important solution and opportunity for our company.

Where is the problem?

The only way to achieve this number of users is that the price of the solution for one user does not exceed 600 EUR. And here is the problem. The price in EU for Filemaker Pro is 350 EUR (without TAX). With these prices we can not compete more and more demanding market.

Solution!?

There were a lot of rumors that Filemaker will launch so called "Thin client" in which users will be able to open filemaker shared databases, print, export PDF, export XLS, import, send mail,...etc., but won't be able to develop anything. The only purpose of this "Thin client would be to open shared databases in local network and use their full features. The expected price was around 100 EUR.

Question for you developers!?

Since we are developing mostly for Mac users there is only one way to achieve our goal....and that is that we rewrite this solution to Cocoa (native Mac OS X environment).

I am not so happy about this because I (and all our developers) like Filemaker very much...but we can not continue with this price policy.

What do you suggest. Is there worth waiting for this "Thin client" or not??

P.S. I do not understand Filemaker. Just in our case it will loose at least 5000 potential new users ( that is for 1.750.000 EUR licenses with current pricing). How many similar cases are there??

Best regards

John

[Lee Smith]

What options do you have beyond FileMaker?

Your figures don't make sense to me, or course I could be missing reading this. (quite possible).

$ 600

- 350

=250

So you will make 250 on each seat, less sales tax on the purchase of the seat?

Why not make it a Standalone using the Developer tools.

Lee

[Søren Dyhr]

The price in EU for Filemaker Pro is 350 EUR (without TAX). With these prices we can not compete more and more demanding market.

Take notice of the terms they're using, "Work Group Bundle" - you need to understand the niche they by it occupies... read what Ernest Koe writes here:

http://www.proofgroup.com/articles/2006/jun/filemakery_part_i

What you have hit is this:

FileMaker Pro’s features are geared towards productivity and rapid development, as opposed to more traditional software development concerns such as reusability of code, scalability and raw performance.

So basicly is the price policy aiming elsewhere than letting you producing foilwrapped solutions ... it's aiming at a workgroup putting something together mutually dependent on fresh ideas and ingenuity found between the members of this group. Seen in that light isn't 3500 euro particular expensive for 10 users and a server license, since you otherwise often would have to outsource the production of the needed tool.

What could be done to solve your problem of being caught with wrong notions of what filemaker is for a tool? In order to keep things with in the filemaker realm to please your employees lack of qualifications, could it perhaps be the building of browsers in Runtime Revolution and then exploit the ODBC server adv. provides.

http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/april/issue24/newsletter1.php

http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/may/issue25/newsletter3.php

http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/may/issue26/newsletter3.php

--sd

[Genx]

What do you suggest. Is there worth waiting for this "Thin client" or not??

No.

Go web based - Try Servoy, or if you're feeling brave go SQL + PHP or ASP... or if you want to deploy basic single user licenses PHP + SQLite.

Can't go wrong with web based - its all platform independent... and code is extremely reusable which would probably be of some use in a software development company.

[John2710]

Standalone (you mean runtime?)..if so. This is not an option because solution is used on local network and users need Filemaker software to access remotely to database.

Your calculation is right 600 -350 = 250. This is not enough to cover our costs and continue developing solution.

[John2710]

FileMaker Pro’s features are geared towards productivity and rapid development, as opposed to more traditional software development concerns such as reusability of code, scalability and raw performance.

So basicly is the price policy aiming elsewhere than letting you producing foilwrapped solutions ... it's aiming at a workgroup putting something together mutually dependent on fresh ideas and ingenuity found between the members of this group. Seen in that light isn't 3500 euro particular expensive for 10 users and a server license, since you otherwise often would have to outsource the production of the needed tool.

What could be done to solve your problem of being caught with wrong notions of what filemaker is for a tool? In order to keep things with in the filemaker realm to please your employees lack of qualifications, could it perhaps be the building of browsers in Runtime Revolution and then exploit the ODBC server adv. provides.

This is true but otherwise Filemaker is good developing tool. And in my opinion with some price cuts or new products ("Thin client") it could beat other developing tools( Acess,....).

Network solutions are still depend on network itself. If network goes down so does solution. In our case this is not the way.

[Lee Smith]

Sorry, I missed the Server part of your post.

What do you suggest. Is there worth waiting for this "Thin client" or not??

I started lengthy reply earlier, but pare it down to what I posted. Unfortunately, I didn't mean to leave out my thoughts about this part of your post.

AFAIK, the "Thin Client" was first mentioned here, by one of the members, who was trying to describe an application that FileMaker should come out with, in order to fill the GAP between a Standalone, and a full version of FileMaker. I agree that this would be a worthwhile alternative for the developers, but I'm not planning anything in anticipation of it every being released.

If anybody has seen any thing official about the release of a "Thin Client", I sure would appreciate being pointed at it, even if it says it ain't so.

Lee

[corn]

I can't speculate as to plans for a thin client or pricing thereof but it appears you are looking at the retail pricing of the product.

If you are an FBA member (and by your account it sounds like you should be) there are two options available for more reasonable pricing. There is both the Preferred VAR pricing and the SBA program. In the US the Preferred VAR pricing offers a discount of approximately 25% off list (for 1-9 licenses - it could be greater for VLA sales) and the SBA program even greater discounts. You should contact your local FileMaker sales rep about these programs and whether one or the other can reduce the cost for you.

[John2710]

I can't speculate as to plans for a thin client or pricing thereof but it appears you are looking at the retail pricing of the product.

If you are an FBA member (and by your account it sounds like you should be) there are two options available for more reasonable pricing. There is both the Preferred VAR pricing and the SBA program. In the US the Preferred VAR pricing offers a discount of approximately 25% off list (for 1-9 licenses - it could be greater for VLA sales) and the SBA program even greater discounts. You should contact your local FileMaker sales rep about these programs and whether one or the other can reduce the cost for you.

Problem is because we do not want to put additional pressure on our customer with all things which are needed to buy VLA Filemaker licenses.

We want to offer customer our software with filemaker together n complete package but filemaker license does not allow to buy VLA license or AVLA and then offer it to third customer.

I understand that FM is oriented in closed workgroups but it has a big potential in producing "foilwrapped" solutions. I know for 3 same cases as our in Italy. They have canceled FM.

[Søren Dyhr]

I've worked in a company where the fixed idea was to sell turnkey solutions running entirely under IWP, and could by it promise you a much longer development time, as well as bug fixing.

A redevelopment in Xcode, even with some very agile libraries such as http://www.paradigmasoft.com/en/products/developer/adk/VSDK at hand is similarly going to cost a fortune, plus the staff inclined to develop in C++ have much more backbone skill wise, and would know to make you pay for their services, where Filemaker developers often comes from other trades such as show business.

I can not see the potential for foilwrapped solutions, but instead a tool where you consult and let you customer know that a solution have a running cost to maintain, that is your service as well as keeping the licensenes updated.

--sd

[David Jondreau]

I couldn't tell from your response if you're familiar with the SBAP program that corn mentions.

The Solution Bundle Agreement Program seems like it might work in your situation. You get to sell a networkable solution. You don't get to include the Filemaker app itself, but you might just have to let go of that.

I don't know what the pricing works out to be, but I'd be interested in learning about that from FBA members who've used the SBAP