Can I reassign field names in bulk?

[Rramjet]

Hi all - haven't been in for a while, but new job - convinced them FileMaker was the way to go; so a new database to build...

I have a tabbed layout with a number of levels (each contained under a top structure of tabs - Time 1, Time 2, Time 3, etc) containing a total of nearly 500 fields at time 1 (and drawn from a Time 1 table). As mentioned I then have multiple time points (30 in all) that contain the same information (just the next time point along).

To create the different time point fields I can (for example) duplicate the Time 1 table (and rename it to Time 2 - it does not matter if the time 2 fields are the same name as time 1 - I can easily take care of the renaming when I export for analysis purposes using SPSS syntax) - and I can copy and paste the time 1 tab structure from the main Layout and place it into the Time 2 Layout (thinking that I could more easily re-assign the fields to the Time 2 table that way – because they are still all of the same name and position on the layout and in the table) - before copying and pasting that time 2 tab structure (with the reassigned fields) back into the main layout under the time 2 tab - and so on for each time point) - but as the fields are (of course) still assigned to the Time 1 table after the initial copy and paste - and with 500 fields - and with (seemingly having) only the ability to re-assign one field at a time to the Time 2 table – a great deal of time and RSI from all that clicking of the mouse looms (especially if I have to do all that 30 times over).

So, is there an easy way to re-assign all the fields in bulk once they are on the correct layout before copying and pasting back into the main layout tab structure? Or is there a better approach altogether?

Thanks and best regards,

Rramjet

[comment]

I then have multiple time points (30 in all) that contain the same information (just the next time point along).

Why don't you make each time point an individual record in a related table?

[Rramjet]

Sorry Comment - but you might have to explain that one in a little more detail for me... I mean, each time point will contain the 'same' 500 fields in related tables (time 1, time 2, etc) so that for one client the information gathered at time one is the same as that for time two (ie; follow-up data) - and I want to (say for client x) enter data into Time 2 (or other time points) by simply clicking on the time 2 tab (or other time point tabs - which contain fields from their respective time point tables) -. so please forgive me if I am being obtuse, but how does that relate to your 'indiviual record in a related table'? And how does that solution solve my reassignation of a single-field-at-a-time problem?

[comment]

It's difficult to be more specific without knowing more about what your solution does. However, I believe it's a fairly safe bet that you have a structural issue, and your "reassignation of a single-field-at-a-time problem" is merely a symptom of it. Having 500 fields lights up a red light, and numbered fields like Object1, Object2, etc. are almost always an indication of poor structure. Duplicating tables in a similar manner is probably even worse.

If each time point contain the same fields as another time point, then each time point should be a record. It's unlikely that 500 fields are required to describe a single time point (or anything) - so that probably needs to be split off into another table as well.

[Rramjet]

Okay, perhaps I have not explained clearly enough.

Above the tab structure I have client info (Name, DOB, etc)

Then the tab structure under that:

LEVEL 1: Outcome measure(OM)1, OM2, OM3, OM4, OM5, OM6, OM7, OM8

LEVEL 2: Assessment, Follow-up1, FU2 > FU30

LEVEL 3: Self, Parent1 Parent2, Carer, Teacher, Other

LEVEL 4: AgeGrp1, AgeGrp2, AgeGrp3

...so:

for outcome measure 1 (L1) , at assessment (L2), for parent one (L3) who completes the AgeGrp1 (L4) measure there are 50 flelds.

Each age group has 50 (or so) fields (slightly different for each age group as might be expected) and each respondent also has slightly different measures for each age group (so the three age groups for self, parents, teachers etc are slightly different also (as also might be expected).

Now: That means for OM1at assessment for Self there are 3 x 50 fields =150 fields.

Multiply that by the 6 L3 tabs and you have 900 fields under 1 timepoint tab.

There are 30 timepoint tabs...

And 8 OM tabs... (all vary in their number of fields, but all contain plenty)

I have created all the fields (L3 and L4 tabs) under assessment.

To create all the fields at timepoint 2 (which are essentially the same - all I need to do is duplicate the assessment table and rename it as Follow-up_1 and relate it to assessment via a UR number (and so on for all the timepoints, duplicating and renaming the table, simple...) I can also copy the layout structure under the assessment tab and paste it under Follow-up_1- but the prolem is (of course) all the fields are still assigned to the assessment table. Now if I paste the layout into the Follow-up_1 layout, then it is easier to re-assign the fields because you don't have to seach for the table when you double click a field, it is there at the top of the dialogue box and given the field name is the dame, then once the table is selected all that is required is to hit the Enter key and move to the next field). Once all the filoeds have been re-assigned I can copy and past the ab structure back into the correct timepoint. However, I can only do one field at a time... and with so many fields it will take forever to re-assign - hence my question: Is there a way I can can I re-assign all of them at once (to save all that to-and-fro...)?

Now you are going to tell me about portals ... I know... but that will get messy too... (but I'll go that way if I have to, but if I can bulk re-assign, I won't have to

Best regards,

Rramjet.

3x50 flelds = 150 L4 fields.

That is there are 8 otcome measure

At each time point there are a number of outcome measure and each outcome measure contains between 30 - 50 fileds.

[Matthew F]

I think what Comment was getting at is that you probably shouldn't need so many fields. I can't follow your design, without an example file or a screen shot, so I'll make up my own example...

Say you need to record a bunch of clinical tests....

You could create a table representing an "encounters" with an encounter ID, and then a bunch of fields for specific things like blood pressure, pulse, temperature, etc.

However, you can reduce the number of fields, by designing each record in your data table to represent single tests, not a whole set of tests. You just need a field describing the test type (blood pressure, pulse, etc.) one field for the result, and one for the encounter ID. Not only does it require less fields, but you don't need to determine ahead of time what all the categories are. The user can make them up as they go along. The design issue then just comes down to the layout. You can use filters or relationships to put certain types of data in different places on your form or Tabs, even though the all came out of the same field in the data table.

[Rramjet]

Perhaps I should have included a screenshot up front...

For the SDQ outcome measure, at Assessment, for a Carer, who completes for the 3-4 age group you can see the fields needed.

The Teacher, Parent, Self, etc are slightly different in that different questions are asked reflecting their status - so I need 3 x the agegroup fields plus all those again for the respondent type - and then I basically have to repeat those for all time points.

My initial thought was, because all time points basically ask for the same information, I could simply duplicate the Assessment table (with some minor field adjustments ) and copy the Assessment tab structure and paste it in under the 6m (6mths) time point and then re-assign the fileds to the 6m table.. That is slow going so my next idea was to paste the tab structure into the 6m layout, making the re-assignation task that much easier - then paste it back...but it is still a slow task - so my question about whether there was a facility to re-assign the field names in bulk (they are the same names and in the same position in the table - so all it should take is an automation of the manual double click, select the table, hit enter and move to the next field).

If I read you (and Comment) correctly I could do away with the timepoint layer and make it a field instead - but then that would require a new record (and I'm already doing that for Episode) and some pretty fancy search procedures up front to make it work. but maybe I am missing something - and if so, perhaps you might be so kind as to explain what?

[comment]

Ehm... I was hoping you would describe the real-life things your solution is trying to track,rather than the current structure of your solution. It's difficult to understand what exactly all those things (like "Outcome measure", for example) are, and how they relate to each other.

Still, there can be little doubt that all those numbered fields (or groups of fields) need to be records. True, you will have many more records than you have now (and a lot of fields less). That's a good thing, because records can be found or omitted, sorted and summarized as well as related to each other. None of this is true about fields.

I could easily be mistaken, but it seems to me you have something very similar to a survey solution. I'd suggest you start by looking at these:

http://fmforums.com/...urvey-question/

http://fmforums.com/...-20#entry229378

---

A note about tab controls:

A tab control is a layout object. It's very convenient for grouping fields that describe the same object - for example, {FirstName, LastName, DOB, etc.}, {Home Address}, {Work Address} and such. It is not suitable for viewing multiple objects of the same kind, such as Person A, Person B, etc. - that's what portals are for.

[Rramjet]

Okay, sorry for not being clear …I’ll try again…

For one client there are:

Eight possible survey types:

Survey_1

Survey_2

Survey_3

Survey_4

Survey_5

Survey_6

Survey_7

Survey_8

Each survey can be conducted by 5 different respondents (completing the survey in reference to the client):

Survey_1 (parent_1)

Survey_1 (parent_2)

Survey_1 (teacher)

Survey_1 (self – is the client...)

Survey_1 (Other)

Survey_2 (etc)

…

…

Each respondent can complete a survey for one of three age groups:

Survey_1 (parent_1) (1-3)

Survey_1 (parent_1) (4-7)

Survey_1 (parent_1) (8-11)

Survey_1 (parent_2) (1-3)

Survey_1 (parent_2) (4-7)

Survey_1 (parent_2) (8-11)

Survey_1 (teacher) (1-3)

Survey_1 (teacher) (4-7)

Survey_1 (teacher) (8-11)

Survey_1 (self) (1-3)

Survey_1 (self) (4-7)

Survey_1 (self) (8-11)

Survey_1 (other) (1-3)

Survey_1 (other) (4-7)

Survey_1 (other) (8-11)

Survey_2(etc)

…

…

Now each of those 15 types of Survey_1 above (and of course the 15 types of Survey_2, and 3, 4 … 8) has a similar set of about 30 core questions plus a handful of specifically tailored questions.

Then all of that is repeated at time 2 (a follow-up survey set that is the same as the initial surveys – with a few minor differences we can ignore for now).

Now all that is laid out in my previous post in the screenshot .jpg I provided.

I have created all the Survey_1 (x15 types = about 500) fields (in a single table named Survey_1_time_1).

Now I want to repeat that for time 2.

Since most of the fields are the same at time 2, I thought I could simply duplicate the Survey_1_time_1 table, change the name to Survey_1_time_2, copy and paste the tab structure under Survey_1_time_1 on the main Layout (as shown in my .jpg) into the Survey_1_time_2 layout, reassign the fields from the Survey_1_time_1 table to the Survey_1_time_2 table, then copy and past that modified tab structure back under the Survey_1_time_2 tab in the main layout.

Unfortunately I can only reassign one field at a time - and as I have 500 fields for Survey_1_time_1 that takes too much time (especially as I have 30 time points!) - hence my question about the ability to reassign fields in bulk. But reading between the lines I assume that is not possible (otherwise someone would have said).

So, I need another solution.

(oh, each client can have more than one episode. That is they can begin the survey process from time 1, complete it to a certain time point, and the case will then be closed. Later, maybe years later, the same client comes back, a new episode is created and they begin the process all over again)

Now as I understand the solution you are pointing me to, I can have (an episode table?), related to a client table, in turn related to a survey table, related to a time-point table– but I cannot get my head around the logic of how it would work. Perhaps you could explain more clearly to me?

[Rramjet]

So I have had a look at the solutions you pointed to Comment and there is some promise in them, however there are some problems I have with them: First, in the demo files, questions in the same survey have the same response set across all questions, but in my surveys the response set varies across questions. Second,I have free text responses mixed in with the standard questions. Third, (and it may just be me) but the demo files seem to be locked so that I cannot see the calculations, scripts, relationships or experiment with them in any way at all - is there a reason/solution for that?

Regards,

Rramjet