How to get FM12 Container Fields to work?

[Steve E.]

This is probably not the right place for this, but its the only place I've seen discussing container fields in FM12.

 

I just took the plunge and upgraded from FM 11 advanced to FM 12 advanced, mostly because of the hype about the new container fields. I hoped for the functionality of simple drag and drop of PDFs both as the original files and as references, and to be able to navigate, copy, etc. inside the PDFs in non-referenced container fields.

 

I thought I'd check out the basic behavior of the different container field settings. A database was created with two fields, one a container field. The tests consisted of trying to place a PDF that has both graphics and text into the container field. I tried using drag & drop, insert file, and insert file reference with the 'optimized as image' and the 'Interactive' settings. I tried 'picture,' 'PDF,' and 'file' with each of the combinations of 'insert' (not drag and drop) and 'insert as reference.'   The results are shown in the table below. Only one combination of settings produced what I considered a functional result! Drag and drop didn't produce a functional at all.

 

Am I missing something really basic here? Is there some magic setting that gives container fields in FM12 more than this really basic functionality that frankly looks just like that in FM11!

-Steve

 

 

Optimized for Image Interactive Drag & Drop Insert Insert as Reference Picture PDF File Behavior FM12   √   √           Doesn't work - PDF icon appears in field, but will not open   √ √           Doesn't work - PDF icon does not appear in field √     √   √     Doesn't work - PDF icon appears in field, but will not open √     √     Not Available     √     √       √ Doesn't work - PDF icon appears in field, but will not open                                         √       √ √     Doesn't work - PDF appears in field, but cannot be navigated (completely viewed) and does not act as text √       √   Not Available     √       √     √ Works - PDF reference appears in field and opens                                             √   √   √     Doesn't work - will not insert PDF   √   √     √   Doesn't work - will not insert PDF   √   √       √ Doesn't work - PDF icon appears in field, but will not open                                           √     √ √     Doesn't work - PDF icon doesn't appear in field   √     √   √   Doesn't work - PDF icon doesn't appear in field   √     √     √ Doesn't work - PDF icon appears in field, but will not open

Ahhhh! The table didn't keep its formatting when it posted. I'm not sure how to post a functional table here.

[Wim Decorte]

I'm afraid your expectations were off to start with.  You're looking for document management features that just are not there.  Apart from the "interactive" setting, most of the FM12 container field features have to do with more efficient storage and backup.

[Steve E.]

I've attached my simple test database. Every time I open it, I get a message "can't find a compatible viewer" and I have  to choose the acrobat app anew. Very very annoying. Could this be because I'm using Mac Acrobat X Pro? This in itself makes it pretty dysfunctional, since I can't reasonably expect someone to do this every time they open a database.

 

None of the "store as reference" tests seem to work in that the PDF is either within the field - not a linked reference that can be clicked on to open the actual PDF - or the reference simply doesn't work (which is the case for all of the 'optimized as image' tests. So, it doesn't seem to allow container fields to only contain a reference that will then open up the original file when clicked. Weirdly enough, an FM11 database with hundreds of PDFs set up in this way retains this functionality and seems to still work fine when converted to FM12. In that database, as soon as the field reference is clicked the PDF opens promptly. However, in the new (attached)  FM12 'Container Tests' database the container fields will hold the PDF but none of the references work to open up the actual PDF. Is this something I'm doing or is this FM12?

Container Tests.fmp12.zip

[bruceR]

Opens fine, no message.

Clicking first record image (right side field) opens it in Preview.

[Steve E.]

Bruce:

What result do you get with the 'Insert Reference_Container_interactive_File' field (lower right field)? Does it open as a text field and not just an image?

And what do you make of the apparent inability to store a reference instead of the whole PDF?

-Steve

[bruceR]

"And what do you make of the apparent inability to store a reference instead of the whole PDF?"

 

What I make is that your statement is incorrect.

Insert file as reference works fine.

 

"Does it open as a text field and not just an image?"

What does that mean?

 

It is not clear what your expectations are, or why you think reading the documentation isn't the solution.

[Steve E.]

I've read the documentation. Its not helping.

 

I don't understand:

 

1. Why I keep having to re-locate the Adobe app every time I open this database?

2. Why insert / reference / container / interactive for Picture and PDF inserts the PDF and not a reference?

3. Why the container fields that do show a reference will not open (and why at least one opened on your computer but not mine where the database was created)?

[Steve E.]

So, I created a new FM11 database with a container field.

Insert_reference_File works perfectly. It stores a reference in the container field which opens up the refereneced PDF promptly with a double click.

This FM11 database also opens up without having to locate the Adobe application.

If I convert this database to an FM12 database the reference will not work, It will not open up the referenced PDF. The database will, however, open up without me having to re-locate the Adobe application.

 

Is there some setting required or step I need to perform in FM12 that wasn't necessary in FM11?

 

??????

[bruceR]

There must be something specific about the interaction with as-yet-unnamed Adobe app.

 

I don't get any of those issues.

 

Regarding item 2 - if it is not a reference then double clicking would not open the file. And aren't you successful with double-clicking? So therefore it IS a reference?

[Wim Decorte]

2. Why insert / reference / container / interactive for Picture and PDF inserts the PDF and not a reference?

 

Interactive has nothing to do with getting the data *INTO* the container.  It only controls how FMS sends you the data and how FMP can interact with that data.  So it only works when FMS is in the mix, it does nothing when the file is not hosted.

On a hosted file, when interactive is toggled on for the container field (and streaming is enabled on FMS!!) then the user does not have to wait for the whole container data to be downloaded before interacting with it.  I.e. the user can start watching the movie, listening to an audio clip or flip through PDF pages before the whole thing is downloaded from FMS.

[Steve E.]

Okay. After several days of screwing with this, it still doesn't work.

But here's a summary of all the symptoms.

The computer is a 2009 Mac Pro 2 X 2.26 running OS 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).

 

***Database created initially in FM12.

Issue #1: Every time the database is opened I get a dialogue:

"AdobePDFviewer cannot find a compatible Acrobat or Adobe Reader to view this PDF. Please select one."

and must re-locate my Adobe App (Acrobat Pro X). this occurs every time. Selecting Acrobat 9 (instead of X) results in Filemaker12 crashing.

 

Issue #2

Interactive-Insert-File produces an icon in the container field(s), but does not open on double click (either a PDF or a Word doc).

 

 

***Database created initially in FM11 and converted to FM12.

Issue #1: The database opens without the dialogue (I don't have to locate the Adobe app).

 

Issue #2

Interactive-Insert-File produces an icon which opens promptly on double click (either a PDF or a Word doc).

 

I've tried reinstalling FM12, but the problem(s) persist.

Any ideas?

[Steve E.]

A poster on the FM website told me this:

 

 

"In order for a double click to to open the file, my limited experiments in FMP 12 suggest that:

1. The container field object cannot be optimized for interactive use.
2. Insert File must be used.
3. "Store a reference" must be specified.
4. The storage options for the container field cannot specify external storage--another factor you may not have investigated yet...

This is consistent with my experiences in Filemaker 11, but items 1 and 4 are not available options in version 11 so you have fewer ways to keep the file from opening. It seems more and more and more that Export Field Contents needs to be the method used to open a file and yet there are limitations to the utility of that method as well."

 

When I changed the container field settings to 'optimized for image' and turned off'external storage' the problems went away. No more adobe app relocation problems on opening the database. And double clicking opens the referenced file.

 

It MIGHT HAVE BEEN NICE OF FM TO TELL US THIS. 

 

That said, I don't see much more (if any) practical functionality here than I've got with FM11. I had hoped to be able to do drag and drop and end up with a reference that would open with a double click. This would save me a lot of hassle in having to name external PDF and text files with a strict naming convention. It would make it possible for an end user to add external files for call up without having to worry about the name or going through the insert navigation.

 

Also, can anyone tell me if there is any usefulness to the 'interactive' setting? If I have it turned on at all on a container field I get the adobe app re-location problem.

[Gilbert Osmond]

I want to "bump" this topic, I need to do exactly the same thing.

 

I have a large structured folder tree of photo images, already named & sorted. I want to be able to drag individual photos into a Filemaker Pro 12 Advanced layout (in Browse mode) and have FMP12 determine the FULL pathname to the image, so I can store it as a Reference (only,) not directly in Filemaker, and NOT in FMP12's new "managed storage" external file architecture.

 

Basically, I want to reproduce the Insert Image's "Store as a reference" option, but using drag-and-drop instead.

 

[Lee Smith]

Hi Gilbert, and welcome to the forum,

 

I deleted your other post as a duplicate. Please do Not multiple post your questions. There is no native drag and drop in v11, that feature was introduced in v12. You can only copy and paste, insert as a reference, or insert without a reference.

 

You are reflecting v11 in your Profile, if this has changed, update your version. here is a Quick link if you need it MY PROFILE.

[jschueller]

I want to "bump" this topic, I need to do exactly the same thing.

 

I have a large structured folder tree of photo images, already named & sorted. I want to be able to drag individual photos into a Filemaker Pro 12 Advanced layout (in Browse mode) and have FMP12 determine the FULL pathname to the image, so I can store it as a Reference (only,) not directly in Filemaker, and NOT in FMP12's new "managed storage" external file architecture.

 

Basically, I want to reproduce the Insert Image's "Store as a reference" option, but using drag-and-drop instead.

 

Sorry to break the news, but you can't drag & drop a reference to any file but the ones in the folder specified in the container field options. I'm guessing you're like me and wanted to reference files already living in separate folders/directories, correct? It can't be done (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) in FMP12, unless you want to add base directories one at a time and a unique field for each. I'm sure you don't want to manage that. 

 

Look at the bright side though: 

 

You decide on a storage folder for your container files and end up with a copy of each file populating that folder as you drag and drop from the original location. It could function as a back-up of sorts. Do have a networked/remote host for your .fmp12 file? Well, it'll perform better when referencing those .jpgs & .pngs if the container storage folder is on the same remote machine/server as the .fmp12 file is run from (I'm guessing the native location of your photos is on a client machine). 

 

Filemaker won't play with your structured folder tree, but you can easily mimic that structure through savvy design. Think of each existing folder as a new table in your database. The way you build relationships between those tables will give you your "tree". Hope that's some help.