Filemaker 5.5 - SAVE Your Money

[SteveB]

I upgraded from Filemaker 5.0 Developer to Developer 5.5 and received the new version last week. I thought I'd share with you all what I've found out. My opinions are strictly my own. I have no need for any web-related enhancements, so please keep that in mind.

The only user interface improvement that the FM gurus made is changing the mouse pointer to a hand...hardly a significant change.

As for what they've given us as developers, it is half baked and rather amaturish. The script debugger does half the job: it displays a line by line execution of each statement. What's missing is the display of values that are being set by the script. You still have to do this through other means. Virtually every modern development environment offers this feature.

The database design report is supposed to show the relationships that exist between fields, layouts, scripts, etc. within a single file or between multiple files. The design report can create a .FP5 file or XML output that can be displayed in a browser. I tried both and had problems. The XML output locked up my machine. The FP5 file has some shortcomings. I have a file with over 700 fields, 200 layouts and almost 500 scripts. I had hoped that I could find elements that are no longer used, but I was disappointed. Fields are displayed in a portal and if you scroll down the list of fields and select one, the list gets reset back to

the original (unscrolled view).

There are bugs that have appeared in version 5 that they haven't bothered to fix, like the inability to save a custom color. The gurus left some of the lists we use frequently (such as layout order) in their small non-expandable states. Other lists, such as Define Script Step, they've given us the ability to enlarge (and remember size and position). But they did this half way as well. You can expand the window, but only the left sub- pane gets larger. The Perform Script Step displays the list of scripts in the same small window. The Define Fields allows you to resize the window, but it won't remember the positions of the separators. Virtually everything they've done with these windows, I did in 5.0 by hacking the DLLs.

The "experts" had almost 18 months to make improvements. While the Web enhancements may be more important and better implemented than the rest of the functionality they put into 5.5, knowing what I know now I would not have purhcased the upgrade. My strong advise is to SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!!

[Moon]

Thanks, Steve. I had posted a query on Developer 5.5's worthiness before the final was released, and yours is the first evaluation of the real thing that I have seen. Like you I am dismayed by FileMaker's headlong pursuit of Web stuff at the expense of making FM Pro and Developer a whole lot more useful to the developer. Don't get me wrong. I love FileMaker and have been making my living with it for a very long time. But the steep upgrade cost (I bought version 5.0 two weeks before 5.5 was announced but it will still cost me 400 to upgrade) made me very leery of the Newest Thing On The Block.

By the way, did you by any chance try out Analyzer 3.0 from Waves In Motion? The web site promises some pretty impressive stuff, and it requires Developer 5.5 to use it. And it also is expensive, even for an upgrade from version 2.0. If Analyzer were really as whiz-bang as it is hyped, it might still be worth my while to invest in both products. As it is, however, I will stick with what I have. I bought Devloper 5 strictly for the Tool so I could manipulate file names, and long since abandoned Analyzer in favor of more tedious (but reliable) manual checking and trouble shooting. I am disappointed that 5.5 is as puny as you described, but suspected that its reporting would so limited given its second-tier marketing position on the FileMaker web site. Thanks for your appraisal. I think you have saved me some big bucks and a lot of frustration. Hope you can recoup the expense.

Moon

[SteveB]

I just wish I could have saved myself the money. Since my app runs only on Windows platforms, Analyzer Pro was not available. I did consider buying a MAC just to run it, but ultimately decided it wasn't worth it. What galls me the most, aside from being ripped off to the tune of $400, is the inability to fix their shoddy work. If I pathch their scripts, next time I create a new Database report I have to do it again.

I also feel they have vastly overpriced the upgrade. To all those who are listening: SAVE YOUR MONEY!

[ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Steveinvegas ]

[David McKee (Protolight)]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steveinvegas:

As for what they've given us as developers, it is half baked and rather amaturish. The script debugger does half the job: it displays a line by line execution of each statement. What's missing is the display of values that are being set by the script. You still have to do this through other means. Virtually every modern development environment offers this feature.

The database design report is supposed to show the relationships that exist between fields, layouts, scripts, etc. within a single file or between multiple files. The design report can create a .FP5 file or XML output that can be displayed in a browser. I tried both and had problems. The XML output locked up my machine. The FP5 file has some shortcomings. I have a file with over 700 fields, 200 layouts and almost 500 scripts. I had hoped that I could find elements that are no longer used, but I was disappointed. Fields are displayed in a portal and if you scroll down the list of fields and select one, the list gets reset back to

the original (unscrolled view).

---

Wow, this is really harsh Steve, and I'm disappointed you are recommending people don't buy FMD 5.5. This is a bad message to send FMI, that when they put a lot of effort in producing a better FMD product, it won't sell any better.

First off, there is a list I compiled and posted on the mailing lists about 5.5 features, contrary to your first impression, there is significantly more than just the hand-over-button feature. I'd STRONGLY encourage you to re-review your copy of FMP 5.5. Record-level privileges alone should be worth the upgrade, and that has nothing to do with the web.

Secondly, except for you, I've heard NOTHING but good reviews about the script debugger. All the core features are there, and for now a simple Admin layout will display field contents while you debug. (A debugger-owned field contents window is being investigated). Even without that extra reference, the script debugger is light-years ahead of show messages.

Third, your criticism of the portal is misplaced. This is not the template's/reports fault.

Lastly, the fact that the template doesn't ship with a "un-used object" flag shouldn't discount the whole feature. It is very strong without it. And since the template is NOT password protected, an accomplished developer can customize the template to suit his or her needs.

I'd strongly encourage you to re-evaluate FMP5.5 and ESPECIALLY FMD5.5!!!

[SteveB]

I have been developing application software for over 30 years...first on mainframes and then on PCs. I am not a novice and I know decent (read well-done and meaningfully improved) upgrades from shoddy ones.

I was specifically targeting the changes FM made to the user interface, not the underlying functionality of FM itself (which I view very highly). Given that FM provided the capability to change to a hand, they could have easily given us the abilty to put up a bubble help the same way: where the checkbox is, just include a text field. I haven't seen anything else that has improved the user interface. Maybe you could enlighten me?

Now to the debugger: First, all the core features aren't there: The inability to find out field values is critical...How much time do you spend creating print statements? You can't switch to layouts on the fly; the script gets executed line by line (so far, I don't have any problem). In order to do what you suggested (switch to a developer layout) you'd have to modify the script (bad idea, plus I have over 700 fields to look through). We still therefore need to put in something more sophisticated than Show Message since it can't display the results of Set Fields. I use the Troi Dialogs, which I think FM could have minimally given us. It seems to me that every debugger I've ever worked with (including those that are almost 10 years old) support displaying data values. My net is they've only done 50% of what was necessary.

Now to the Database Reports. I am beginning to wonder whether those guys ever use their own software to develop anything. We all know about orphaned fields, scripts, relationships, etc. One would have thought that FM would have given us a way to identify all the trash laying around. But you can't do it with what they've given us. If you have to modify the FP5 file, you'll have to do it everytime the report is run. You think this is a satisfactory solution?

I still think the upgrade is over-priced, and users should think long and hard about plunking down money for an inferior upgrade.

[ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Steveinvegas ]

[David McKee (Protolight)]

quote:

---

Given that FM provided the capability to change to a hand, they could have easily given us the abilty to put up a bubble help the same way: where the checkbox is, just include a text field. I haven't seen anything else that has improved the user interface. Maybe you could enlighten me?

---

Unfortunately, there is only so much you can do without changing the file format of a filemaker database. There was not enough "reserved/unused" information with the button to be used to also store static text, or even a field reference.

5.5 precluded a file-format change.

quote:

---

Now to the debugger: First, all the core features aren't there: The inability to find out field values is critical...How much time do you spend creating print statements? You can't switch to layouts on the fly;

---

Actually, this is incorrect, you can switch layouts while you are on a break point. So, the core functionality is there. It just could be easier as a debugger-owned window. Even with this limitation I think it extreme to discount the debugger.

quote:

---

One would have thought that FM would have given us a way to identify all the trash laying around. But you can't do it with what they've given us. If you have to modify the FP5 file, you'll have to do it everytime the report is run. You think this is a satisfactory solution?

---

Yes, we are all developers that have experience with FMP databases, this is why I am confused by the extreme stance on this point. In house, everyone used the script debugger and DDR extensively without problems.

The DDR uses a database in the "DDR" folder as the template for that report. It's name is "FMDB_Report.fp5".

There is no need to alter the finished report. Just open up the template and add the field that counts the related records.

Granted, this could have been done to the shipping database, but the purpose of the DDR is not to be the end-all solution. It is a documentation report, not an analyzer. You can leverage the feature to be an analyzer, which is precisely what Waves in Motion is doing.

What I think you are not realizing is that with the DDR, you have the engine behind your own dream documenation tool. All you have to do is extend the templates to do whatever you wish.

For users who can't extend the templates, they are at a level where the templates are sufficient as is.

Unfortunately, I still fail to see why you feel so negative over these two features. = (

[clevow]

FileMaker 5 wouldn't run on my Win2k box. I'm very pleased that 5.5 does. That was worth the upgrade and the price, obviously.

[Anatoli]

Who on earth told you that? All users I know with W2k (inclusive of me) have v 5.0.3

[clevow]

No one told me that. That was my experience. I installed it from the original CD and the installation was fine, except that immediately after saying that the installation had finished it asked if I wanted to replace a file that was newer than the one I was copying. Obviously, that's weird, but installation from this CD works on other computers.

After installing, if I ran the program it would launch a process but not the application itself....It just wouldn't come up on screen. There is some talk in FileMaker's knowledge base about conflicts with certain Dell machines, but following their steps (including removing the sound drivers) did not work. There was no fix offered other than uninstalling the sound drivers.

5.5 installed perfectly and runs like a champ.

It's not a big deal particularly. I'm an educational user so the cost is significantly less than for the regular version.

-Carrie

[Anatoli]

Carrie, it you are talking from experience, than it is OK. But people sometime pay to much attention to marketing slogans

I bet our IT guy will make even the v. 5 behave on W2000.

[clevow]

I have no doubt that it can be made to work under 2k. I'm guessing there are more conflicts with drivers than FileMaker has mentioned on its website. Since the fix for the conflict with the Dell sound drivers is to uninstall them completely, which I'm not willing to do, I don't have much faith that there have been acceptable fixes for other conflicts.

I sat down with our best Windows guy and his solution was to get 5.5 or start uninstalling hardware. I took the former, and easier path.

-Carrie

[Anatoli]

Nothing wrong with that