New server connections to Internet

[LaRetta]

FMS 7.03

Our new server (Wilbur) arrived today. I've hit a snag and hope you will forgive any incorrect phrasing (I'm a network newbie). I wrote notes as we worked on it but, since what I was writing made little sense, it's making even less sense as I try to explain it.

Network server is Windows 2000sp4. New FM server is Windows 2003 Standard Edition. On our old FM server, I accessed the box using GoToMyPC, no problem. Our Network server is DCHP? I also wrote "don't set up on dns." I can't figure out my notes but basically, if (default gateway?) is set to automatic, it finds internet fine. But if I set the IP, it can't find it. Our internet goes through our network server (I think) and then to our IP. I hope that made sense because now that I read my notes, it makes none... but I need access to that machine!!

I don't think we'd want direct internet access because I've turned firewalls and anti-virus off. Can someone direct me a bit? BTW, that new server weighs 20 times what a regular tower weighs! I think it's bullet proof!!

LaRetta

[CyborgSam]

LaRetta->

I'm probably getting way too geeky...

In most cases a separate piece of hardware (cable/DSL modem, et al.) forms the gateway between the Internet and all local computers. Some of these boxes incorporate a router. When they don't, something needs to route, that can be a dedicated box or a computer.

In either case, the fact that the Internet isn't accessible when you set the IP says that you're network is using DHCP. Most routers allow DHCP to be setup to recognize a computer's unique hardware address so the computers will always receive the same IP. When setup this way, a computer appears to have a static address since it will always be at the same address on that network.

I'm on Comcast cable, the first box off the Internet is their cable modem. Since I have multiple computers (and want some extra security) there's Netgear router. My four computers plug into the Netgear. I've set the NEtgear up so each computer always has the same address, that way bookmarks between them never change.

If this isn't clear, please tell us how you're connected to the Internet (cable, DSL, T1, et al.) and what network boxes are present.

[Wim Decorte]

Sam's setup should work, but it's not very standard.

The standard way is to assign each machine a static IP address in it's own TCP/IP properties and set the gateway address manually. You can choose to let the DNS info be set automatically by the DHCP server if necessary.

The benefit of doing it this way is that you more easily assign IP addresses to classes of machines (separate range for workstations, servers, printers, routers,...).

If the internet router is set to act as a DHCP server, you'll need to set the range of IP addresses it can distribute so that it does not conflict with your manually assigned ones.

[LaRetta]

Thank you Samuel!

You've helped me visualize our setup. So I set the FM server IP address at the router then, when I set the IP at the box, it will stick, right? Sorry, I'm not at the office...

I believe we are T1. Network boxes present? Would it help you if I told you there was a long skinny flat blue box with wires in the back and lights on the front? I assume that's our (T1) modem? So if we are DHCP then there should be a router attached to it? If these assumptions are correct then I should be able to continue from here.

I see a great need to document everything in this networking arena. I've been taking screen shots of the various window settings because missing one simple setting could be time-consuming when attempting to isolate a problem. Thanks again!!

LaRetta

[LaRetta]

You snuck in ahead of my post when I was sleeping, Wim.

Thank you! I will check out all of this in the morning and let you know if I get stuck.

L

[Wim Decorte]

I also wrote "don't set up on dns." I can't figure out my notes but basically, if (default gateway?) is set to automatic, it finds internet fine. But if I set the IP, it can't find it.

Could be a clue here. You'll need to set up DNS, otherwise name resolution for internet sites won't work.

You can choose to let the DHCP server set the DNS settings or set them manually. To set manually, look at the router and use it's DNS addresses (the ones it gets from the ISP) in the manual setup of your server.

This is all in the assumption that the Windows 2000 Server (network server) is not set up to act as a DNS server. If it is, you'd use it's IP address as the DNS server in the IP setup of the 2003 server.

Confusing enough? I can send some screenshots if you want... :

[Wim Decorte]

The modem would actually be relatively small with not many wires coming in or going out.

The blue box you're seeing is probably the router, or at the least a switch.

When you configure the new server automatically, go to a command prompt and type in:

ipconfig /all

It will tell you the current IP address but also the DNS addresses it uses and the IP address of the gateway and the DHCP server. You'll be able to track & locate the DHCP server that way. If the gateway & DHCP server are the same IP address then you know they are the same box.

Let me know if we need to probe a little deeper to help you out :

[CyborgSam]

Sam's setup should work, but it's not very standard.

Systems administrators use DHCP much more commonly than manually setting each machine's info. Every major OS (Windows, Mac, and Linux) defaults to DHCP out of the box, easing setup for the vast majority of users and systems administrators. When it is necessary to assign an IP to a given computer, this is done on the DHCP server(s).

The disadvantage to having static information on a computer is that this info needs to be set on a per computer basis, making automated systems administration more difficult. In an environment with many computers of a single model, sys admins like to make clean, pre-installed boot disks to replace faulty/corrupted drives. If the computers use DHCP, they simply have to swap the drive and reboot. Since the network card is the same, the computer will regain its old IP address from the DHCP server,

[CyborgSam]

...there was a long skinny flat blue box with wires in the back and lights on the front?

T1 modems are usually placed where the phone wiring enters the building, since they use multiple phone lines to achieve their high speed.

If all the computers plug into this box, it's the router. Tell us which brand & model. Netgear and Juniper are two brands using blue. Some routers are way easier to configure than others.

One other possibility: the box could be a hublet, which is like a power strip for networks: it allows multiple computers to plug into one line. But there will still be a router upstream to route the multiple computers to the Internet.

[Wim Decorte]

I hear you, but it's a lot harder to explain to novices than a plain manual setup. Explaining your setup depends a lot on the DHCP server in use.

Besides, it's only necessary for servers & printers, not for workstations. Workstations typically are all on DHCP.

[CyborgSam]

it's a lot harder to explain to novices than a plain manual setup.

In my experience and opinion, the reverse is true. Most users are dumbfounded by Window's intricate & non-intuitive networking setup, not having to change these settings is a lot easier.

In many environments without dedicated file servers, users share files on their workstations, it's easier for novices if they're setup with DHCP with the IP set by hardware address.

[LaRetta]

"If the gateway & DHCP server are the same IP address then you know they are the same box."

I've tangled this thread with the other and maybe DHCP and IP addresses and the router have NOTHING to do with External vs. FM Authentication or Domain vs. Local Groups mixed with Privilege settings.

I posted the results of FM server's ipconfig /all on the other post, Wim.

That next morning, Owner had resolved this issue and I haven't talked to him about what he did. I've been too busy hunting for a lost modem (with very few wires) and tracking down a possible Domain Controller lurking somewhere on our premises ...

Oh - Answer to the above quote - We have two different IP addresses listed so I assume the gateway is the router (which is the netgear) and the DHCP is either our network server acting as a domain controller but maybe just Local Groups) or the other netgear is actually a DHCP. And then again ... maybe not.

Oh God, I'm feeling a bit like Lawnmower Man ...

L

[Wim Decorte]

I've tangled this thread with the other and maybe DHCP and IP addresses and the router have NOTHING to do with External vs. FM Authentication or Domain vs. Local Groups mixed with Privilege settings.

That's right. How the server machine gets its IP address has nothing to do with setting up EA.

There are some caveats though where the IP settings and EA could touch though: if you're using Active Directory on the network then there has to be a DNS server in the same network (on small networks, the AD box is also the DNS server). Frequently people will also enable the AD box as a DHCP server so that it properly distributes the DNS info...

But the big test is this: if you can log into the FMS machine with an AD account then EA will normally work for all your FM users (as long as they log into their workstations with an AD account).

That is of course if you want to use EA with an AD. If you want to use local accounts/groups on the FMS machine then most of that DNS/DHCP caveat goes away.