Using the document window to find the file in Finder???

[George P]

In every other Mac program that I am familiar with, if one command clicks on the window title you get a hierarchical view of where that particular document lives on your computer. 

 

This does not seem to be the case in FMP12 or FMPro 14. Am I doing something wrong, or is this capability not supported in FM?

 

Thank you!

[bruceR]

Not supported; and potentially dangerous.

Why would you want to know that? 

Is this going to be a multi-user file, using FileMaker Server at some point?

Edited July 24, 2015 by BruceR

[George P]

I'm a computer idiot so don't understand why it would be potentially dangerous. And if it is dangerous, why is support for this so ubiquitous among other programs? Here's an example from Text Edit in case I didn't explain myself well. This feature makes it so quick and easy to locate the actual data file in any application that supports this pathway, thus improving efficiency.

 

[comment]

in case I didn't explain myself well.

You have explained yourself quite well, I believe. And the answer is that this feature is not available in Filemaker, because Filemaker uses app windows (like the ones you see in Apple Mail, for example), not document windows (the kind that have an icon next to their name) to interact with the user.

The reason for this design choice we can only guess - though I believe that hiding the file's location from users could well be the reason, or one of the reasons.  Many Filemaker solutions require tight control over what users can do. Having physical access to the file increases dramatically the ability to break into it.

On second thought, a user with FMPA can always open the data viewer and evaluate Get ( FilePath ) - so that's probably not the reason.

Edited July 25, 2015 by comment

[bruceR]

Again: WHY do you want to do this? An open database file is SO different from for instance a text file as in your example. Yes we know how that feature works. Improving efficiency? For what? 

Edited July 25, 2015 by BruceR

[bruceR]

Re dangerous see the discussion in the "Layout seems to be corrupted" thread.

[OlgerDiekstra]

I'm a computer idiot so don't understand why it would be potentially dangerous. And if it is dangerous, why is support for this so ubiquitous among other programs? Here's an example from Text Edit in case I didn't explain myself well. This feature makes it so quick and easy to locate the actual data file in any application that supports this pathway, thus improving efficiency.

 

I don't have a Mac so can't test it or confirm it, but I would expect you be able to do that on the window of FileMaker itself. Any window within the database (ie the layouts) all reside inside the database, so there's probably not much point in having that functionality.

It would probably work the same as in excel, where you can have multiple tabs in a worksheet, but they are all part of the one file.

 

Please look at the "corrupted" thread before replying. It describes quite a few problems resulting from manipulating/saving/moving open files. I know you know these things. The OP seems to want to "efficiently" take some kind of action on an open file, though we do not yet know exactly what action he has in mind.

I don't think this question relates to mentioned thread, or is potentially dangerous. This sounds more like someone trying to figure out why things are different, and trying to learn and understand. That's something that should be stimulated. The more people understand how things work, the better they will able to work with them. We have security to ensure that very knowledgeable people can't do more than they should.

[OlgerDiekstra]

There are other ways to say this but It would really be better if you had actual knowledge of the subject.

it is dangerous; and relates directly. What you can do in that dropdown is move, trash, duplicate, rename the file. All quite dangerous things to do with an open Filemaker file.

On Windows renaming, deleting, moving open files isn't possible, on Linux, and Mac's too I assume as they are based on FreeBSD, you can rename, trash, rename open files because of how the OS handles files. Linux works with filehandles, rather than filenames. It may appear the same on the surface, but it certainly has different results.

Having said that, if Mac works identical to Linux on a filelevel, then it's not actually that dangerous. You can rename an open file because you're not actually doing anything with the filehandle. FileMaker would then also use the filehandle to open the file, not the actual filename. Even moving is perfectly fine (deleting too) as the file isn't actually touched. The space the file consumes on disk doesn't change. The filesystem merely marks the file in a different location or in the recycle bin. Windows actually works in a similar way where a file being deleted isn't physically removed from the disk. It's just marked as deleted. Even moving a file doesn't constitute actually moving the physical file. All that is changed is a few pointers in the file allocation table.

The other thread is someone working on a Windows computer, so things are different. If it's dangerous, then it's especially important people now how to handle it. And not telling someone the reason why something is better not done, isn't conducive.

[comment]

The other thread is someone working on a Windows computer, so things are different.

I believe the other thread is about having the file manipulated by another application (Dropbox/OneDrive) while open in Filemaker. I suspect that would lead to the same problems on a Mac as it does on Windows. But apparently I haven't read the other thread, so I could be wrong about this. Perhaps it's about space aliens invading - that could be dangerous.

[OlgerDiekstra]

I believe the other thread is about having the file manipulated by another application (Dropbox/OneDrive) while open in Filemaker. I suspect that would lead to the same problems on a Mac as it does on Windows. But apparently I haven't read the other thread, so I could be wrong about this. Perhaps it's about space aliens invading - that could be dangerous.

Not necessarily. https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/52 states locked files (ie open) are not synced. Haven't investigated OneDrive but assume that would behave the same. On Windows that is. Since you can rename files on Mac whilst open, that behaviour would be different on Macs.

It's probably good practice not to open a FM file from a dropbox/onedrive location, especially since one can use the same files through dropbox/onedrive on different OS's and therefore experience different behaviour.

But I do agree the other thread would appear to be on a very different topic. Maybe they're from Earth 2.0? Those aliens I mean? They could just be having a bad day, maybe someone just needs to scratch them behind their ears.

[comment]

There's another thing that needs to be mentioned in this context. I mean the context of the original post, asking about :

if one command clicks on the window title you get a hierarchical view of where that particular document lives on your computer. 

The title of a Filemaker window is the name of that window in FIlemaker - which is not necessarily the name of the file in Finder. Filemaker allows you to open multiple windows of the same file, and address each window separately. Filemaker also allows you (the developer, not the user) to name and rename the windows.

When you have a file with multiple tables, and you have a window showing Invoices next to a window showing Receipts, the ability to name the windows accordingly comes in really handy.

This makes Filemaker very different from the other OS X application mentioned.

[George P]

Very interesting. Thank you for your explanation, and the original info you gave on your post at 16:28 yesterday. This issue makes sense now and your effort to explain everything is greatly appreciated! And, as OlgerDiekstra said, "... not telling someone the reason why something is better not done, isn't conducive"; it's intellectually fun to learn the reason why, even if it doesn't change one's immediate actions. All the best

[bruceR]

It would be helpful if you would answer the question.

The reason for asking you to address the question of WHY you might want to do this leads to other issues. For instance, you can build FileMaker systems with multiple files, that can reference each other, based on the filename and the file path. Merely knowing the location of a file isn't a problem. But moving or renaming a file can break a multi-file system. The thought process that leads to questions about file location might also arise because of how you might choose to version or back up files. There is also the possibility that you are thinking of having identical files in multiple locations Invoices/2014/Invoices.fmp12, Invoices/2015/Invoices.fmp12. This leads to questions about data structure.

There are other issues that might be relevant - which is why I asked the question, rather than attempting ahead of time to guess and enumerate a zillion possibilities.

Edited July 26, 2015 by BruceR

[George P]

Didn't realize how complex all this computer stuff is "behind the scenes". I just wrongly assumed that a program window was a program window, regardless of the application that created it, so was curious why FMP, with all of its other powerful features, didn't support that option.

[bruceR]

OK. But why do you want to use that option? Why do you want to know where the file is located? It may seem like an impertinent question but really there is a LOT to know about how FileMaker handles files, even more so in multi-user situations with peer to peer or FileMaker Server.

Often - especially when you're new to this territory - it is helpful to sort of "think out loud" about a problem you are trying to solve and why you think a particular approach is really what you need.

Comment is famous for bringing up the XY problem, written up in various places such as here: 

http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=542341

 

[George P]

Very wise philosophical point about the XY problem! I like it. Thanks for sharing.

 

(in this particular case I was just plain and simple curious, something that often gets me in trouble or causes a huge waste of time, but can be quite fun to pursue...)

Edited July 26, 2015 by George P

[OlgerDiekstra]

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery everyday. Never lose a holy curiosity.
Albert Einstein

[George P]

Great quote!