HELP! - I can't reorder fields in the Define Database dialog

[foobaz]

I am a new user and I am using FM Pro 8.5 trial version. I can add and reorder fields in the Define Database dialog but when I OK out of it the first time and then reorder fields a subsequent time, the new order does not show up in any of the views. I can add new fields and change their order within the dialog but the new order does not show up in any views when I OK out of it. I can rename fields but any data associated with a field will remain associated with the original field regardless of the new name so this is not a valid work-around. If I delete a field, it leaves a gaping hole where the field was. This is a serious problem as I have no way of maintaining an existing database. Is there any setting I have overlooked that will fix this? I can't go on without fixing this problem. Thanks for any help.

[Inky Phil]

Hi Foobaz and welcome to the forum

I am afraid that you are trying to reorder your fields in the wrong place. You reorder your fields in the layout itself so that each layout can have the desired look.

When you go to any given layout you want to go into layout mode where you will be able to drag and place your fields to any order, or position in some views, that you want.

I suggest that you look at 'layouts' or 'Layout mode' in the online help as I think that you are at the early stages of learning FM and you need to go over the basics.

Any further help needed get back to us

HTH

Phil

[foobaz]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the warm welcome and the speedy reply. I tried what you suggest and I was, thankfully, able to reorder the fields but I think this is a rather kludgy way to do it because it is difficult to align everything. Maybe there's an automatic way to realign the field labels and boxes?

In any case I think it would be easier to just let the program take care of reordering and initial alignment.

The help file states:

"Reordering field definitions

FileMaker Pro uses the order in which fields appear in the Fields tab of the Define Database dialog box for all dialog boxes that list fields. You can list fields in the order they were created, by field name, by field type, or in a custom order that you define."

Unless I'm misinterpreting this, it implies that the order you create in the Define Database dialog should be maintained in any view dialog you care to use including the layout one. Am I misinterpreting this?

Hi Foobaz and welcome to the forum

I am afraid that you are trying to reorder your fields in the wrong place. You reorder your fields in the layout itself so that each layout can have the desired look.

When you go to any given layout you want to go into layout mode where you will be able to drag and place your fields to any order, or position in some views, that you want.

I suggest that you look at 'layouts' or 'Layout mode' in the online help as I think that you are at the early stages of learning FM and you need to go over the basics.

Any further help needed get back to us

HTH

Phil

[TechRangerBrad]

I think you are getting confused with dialog boxes and layouts. It does state that that order in the define database area will carry over into dialogue boxes, but a layout is not considered a dialogue box.

I use the align feature quite a bit. In the design view you should see a menu option called arrange. You can select the fields and labels you want to algin by holding down shift+click and then click on arrange and align to align them in different ways.

Welcome aboard and I hope this helps.

[foobaz]

Hi TechRangerBrad,

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure the layout view is technically a dialog box. It does appear in a window. I get the impression though, that the help file does consider this a dialog. Well in any case, I brought up the Sort Records dialog box (this definitely IS a dialog box) in the Browse mode and the order there is different from the order in the Define Database dialog box which is in turn different from the order in all the various view modes in the form view. So there is a real inconsistency here. At least the Sort Records dialog should reflect the order in the Define Database one I think. Can you please do me a favor and see how your installation behaves? Try reordering in the Define Database dialog and then see how the order in the form view and the Sort Records dialog differ if indeed they differ at all. Thanks.

I think you are getting confused with dialog boxes and layouts. It does state that that order in the define database area will carry over into dialogue boxes, but a layout is not considered a dialogue box.

I use the align feature quite a bit. In the design view you should see a menu option called arrange. You can select the fields and labels you want to algin by holding down shift+click and then click on arrange and align to align them in different ways.

Welcome aboard and I hope this helps.

[foobaz]

In response to the second part of your reply, I assume you mean the Arrange > Align menu that's available in the layout mode. This works but it is very awkward. Say I want to insert a new field. I first have to select all the fields that will be displaced by the new field and move them down. Then I have to go to the Define Database dialog and create a new field. I then have to go and select the new field and its label and manually move it into position and rough align it. I then have to monkey around with the Align and Distribute commands, selecting the labels and the field boxes separately in order to get everything neatly aligned again. This, to me, is doing it the hard way. Yes it works but . . . If it worked like I thought it did from reading the help file, it would be a simple matter of creating a new field and dragging it into place and clicking OK, just like cutting and pasting a line of text in a text editor. At least that seems the intuitive and easy way to do it to me. But I guess I'll just have to accept things the way they are and suggest a feature to the FM programmers. At least now I can spend some time implementing the database I spent the last few days planning, with FM, confident that I at least can modify it later on when I discover there is one field I left out that goes after the existing third field of ten. In any case thanks for the info.

I use the align feature quite a bit. In the design view you should see a menu option called arrange. You can select the fields and labels you want to algin by holding down shift+click and then click on arrange and align to align them in different ways.

[comment]

When you choose Sort Records, the list of fields defaults to alphabetical listing of fields on the current layout. I am not too happy about that choice either, but it can be changed to a list of all fields in the current table (click the drop-down menu above the list of fields). Then the order will be the same as in Define Fields.

Also, bear in mind that a table can have many layouts.

[foobaz]

Oh, you're right. I see now that a table is just a raw collection of fields. The order is not that important and you can reorder them if you want so they appear in a dialog in a particular order. The LAYOUT is where you actually arrange fields in their proper presentation order. And you can make as many different layouts as you want. And you can either enter the fields in the order in which you want them to appear, or you can drag them to rearrange them BEFORE you OK out of the New Layout/Report dialog. One thing I'd still like though is the ability to reopen the layout in something like the New Layout/Report dialog and be able to add and rearrange fields from there instead of going through all the tedious gyrations of moving and aligning stuff in the layout view. Thanks for the insight!

When you choose Sort Records, the list of fields defaults to alphabetical listing of fields on the current layout. I am not too happy about that choice either, but it can be changed to a list of all fields in the current table (click the drop-down menu above the list of fields). Then the order will be the same as in Define Fields.

Also, bear in mind that a table can have many layouts.