Filemaker 12/13 unusably slow after upgrade from 11

[daveinc]

Hi guys,

We recently upgraded our servers and clients to Filemaker Server13/Pro 12/13 and FM is practically unusable at times(far too often) where simply typing a character in a field takes 10 seconds. It is literally unusable in this state, especially since our users are accustomed to 11 which had it's own issues with slow scripts and finds, but never anything like this that makes it impossible to even work and causes entry errors all over the place while FM catches up with simple data entry.

This is a huge database solution used by 150 users in 9 locations and recreating it from scratch would literally take years with our current FM staff. There are some optimizations to be made and we are always looking to optimize everything, but this issue occurs when typing into a standard text field with no triggers, no special formatting, nothing to optimize! Our server console(not as nice as the old one by the way) shows nothing abnormal according to Filemaker and consultants we have had look at it. The server machine, disk subsystem and network are more than enough according to everyone we have spoken with. All of our current client machines easily meet the system requirements

Does anyone have an idea of why this would be and what can be done short of a complete rewrite to alleviate this untenable situation? Neither FM nor our consultant had a solution short of starting over, and that's just not an option with the scope of this solution. . We have been using FM since version 6 and have never had anything like this so I'm not sure what to make of it. We tested in the only practical manner before the upgrade and didn't notice any of these issues. Of course we couldn't simulate 150 users in 9 locations. We may have to abandon FM for good if this can't be resolved and I really can't believe others have not had these kinds of issues so I'm hoping the forums can help more than FM with this.

 

Worried we've made a huge mistake,

Dave

[Josh Ormond]

If scripts and finds were slow in 11, there is something wrong with the setup. It could be anything from database structure, to network lag, to hardware i/o problems.  What kind of hardware is FM Server running on.

 

Also try changing the Theme being used and see if that helps. The classic theme that gets converted by default can have a lot of erroneous and inefficient CSS in the background that is cause the lag.

 

I have seen others have the same issues...and also many that have solutions just as large with millions of records with no problems. Testing it first before conversion is very, very important.

[Lee Smith]

I think you left out some important information. The first things that come to mind are:

 

Are the files only slow when being served, or single user?

Are these files that you migrated from v6-v7?

 

The slow response can be cause by have Auto Complete, indexes, corruption, etc.

 

HTH

 

Lee

[daveinc]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. We tested extensively using a similar(but not exact) setup on a sandbox network. Of course we couldn't hire a team of 150 testers from all nine of our locations to simulate a real load. We had 5 testers and even then, we are not performing work at the rates our expert users would. Scripts and finds are not the issue now. Typing in completely unformatted fields is.  All files were checked for index problems and compacted before conversion. They were not slow in any fashion during testing, in fact everything seemed faster, but that might have been because we only had 5 users. Finds are only slow when users perform them on unindexed or related fields, we have been going through and closing all of those loopholes or creating new ways to get to that information. We've never had any issues on FM11 that caused literal work stoppage and errors like this as long as the server was up and functional.

What effect will changing the theme have? I don't want changes to our layouts. There were a host of minor display issues that were easy to resolve and I expected that.

I would be thrilled if our issues were limited to slow scripts and bad finds, but not being able to type data into a field is a whole new level of problem. It's almost like there's an intense flash movie running within the FM window during these times. No other applications seem to be affected at all. Thanks again for any advice you may have. 

[Josh Ormond]

Slow typing is an indication that the slowdown is at the client level. 

 

Imagine the number of objects each having their own CSS code ( the full description ). Instead of fields referencing 1 CSS style, each field could be holding it's own full CSS stylesheet and descriptions. Instead of having 100 fields x 3 stylesheets...it could be 100 fields x 100 stylesheets. As a basic, non-descript example. Back when FM13 was released I remembered seeing an article that explained the changes to the layout and gave a similar example using the data bytes that get moved. I will see if I can find that artilcle. 

 

That is where I would start. Richard Carlton has a nice video showing the differences and how he created a theme based on his existing look.

[daveinc]

The server is a Cove XFM setup that uses a RAID array of Solid State Drives. Top of the line in every facet. It is the exact same machine we had FM11 server on reformatted and setup with FMS13. Windows Server 2008 R2. I don't think it's a server issue, because the server stats are fine all the time. We also bought a number of new client machines to meet the requirements. It's almost like the client can't redraw the screen at an acceptable rate or is hogging resources for something. It happens at different times to different clients on both Macs and PCs, but again far too often to ignore. Regardless of the new features and their neato abilities, you have to be able to use the database for the upgrade to be worth it.

I'm hoping the theme change will be a simple fix that won't create a ton of work for us. It just doesn't make sense to me because everything is exactly the same as it was Friday when 11 was zooming along wonderfully. I have restarted the server after hours a couple of times as well but still the behavior persists.

[Josh Ormond]

There was a MAJOR change with out layouts are created/rendered in 12 and again in refined in 13. It's not the same. at all.

[daveinc]

Thanks for your advice Josh. I knew the layout changed as to how it was constructed, but I didn't think it would be quite so dramatically slow. I just visited Richard Carlton's site and didn't find a video on converting an 11 layout to a new theme. Do you know where I can find this? Youtube maybe?

[Josh Ormond]

He starts talking about theme optimization around the 8:30 mark or so.

[IdealData]

Look at the cache settings on FMS

[CRW030]

Possibly not an issue for you based on scouting your server configuration (http://www.econnectix.com/products/xpd/xfm/XFM-datasheet.pdf ), but still worthwhile to investigate what configuration your server is currently using (it looks like 2-CPU, 4-GB RAM might be a minimum Cove XFM config --- and that could be a potential issue).  The maximum config of 8-cores and 32 GB RAM, would blow anything away I have access to.

 

  But sharing my experience from upgrading FM11 > FM12 (and soon FM13) for anyone trying to run on marginal hardware.

 

I took over "administering" a working FM11 environment that wasn't having any serious problems and I was new to Filemaker (although generally competent on web development and database servers etc).  There were a few longer-than-I-liked running scripts but as a novice with FM I didn't want to mess with things (I was in the "if it ain't broke..") mentality.

 

  The brief guidance I would provide is:  Read the provided Filemaker System Requirements for your version (or for an upgrade) taking careful note of which version OS you will be running it on. (Version (2008 and 2008 R2 aren't the same!), Service Pack and x32 or x64 are all important factors).

 

   Unless you are carefully policing all scripts and database designs so they remain ultra-efficient -- you cannot afford to run the "Minimum Requirements" recommended by Filemaker (in my experience).  In my opinion, this is where the expert development resources can help, making sure the design isn't moving unnecessary data over the network to the client, and all the scripts have been reasonably optimized.

 

  I was about to share my catastrophic journey to this realization until I realized it was 2 pages long.  I've personally seen careful attention to how much data is being moved (by the design) over the network to users can quickly become an issue (it also consumes lots more disk time), and bad row-by-row scripts and calculations can get you with CPU usage.

 

But I found these to be useful resources when I was having issues:

FM11 System Requirements: http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7638/~/system-requirements-for-filemaker-server-11-and-filemaker-server-11-advanced

FM12 System Requirements: http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10072/~/system-requirements-for-filemaker-server-12-and-filemaker-server-12-advanced

FM13 System Requirements: http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13180/~/system-requirements-for-filemaker-server-13

[daveinc]

Just as a follow up, the FM issues have solved themselves with no direct intervention on my part. I guess it simply needs a week or two to get comfortable? My console still won't allow me to add Scheduled Scripts, but that's a minor issue compared to what was happening before.

[Josh Ormond]

Sounds like FMS may have been busy doing something else. Maybe rebuilding the indexes.