Where on my phone is my file?

[Tpaairman]

IOS 17, iPhone 12.

I have a file that is in the on my phone folder in Files.  All of this is just a test since I'm still getting the hang of this.  Long story short, when I make changes in FM Go, those changes are saved, but the file that's in the on my phone folder of Files is not being updated with the changes.  The modified time doesn't change, and I sent a copy of it to my iCloud folder, then opened it with my laptop, and the changes weren't there.  Soooooo, where exactly is the file being saved to?

[Søren Dyhr]

I would host the solution as peer 2 peer, form a never ever shut down filemaker client, the thing is that filemaker as such is a protocol and not a file based form of storage, by which iCloud could be made to update appropriately - only when leaving an filmmaker go-app, the data is pushed to perform the sync'ing required. But the subscription to a hosting service costs next to nothing ... 

Claris is wording the matter this way:

Quote

When you transfer a file to your device, you are creating a copy of the original file.  Data changes made on your device are not synchronized to the original file and vice versa.  You will need to transfer the file back to the computer and use FileMaker Pro to import data to the original file in order to update data.

--sd

Edited March 30 by Søren Dyhr

[comment]

Does the Get(FilePath) function work in FM Go? The help doesn't say one way or another.

 

[Søren Dyhr]

14 minutes ago, comment said:

Does the Get(FilePath) function work in FM Go? The help doesn't say one way or another.

 

Even so, isn't it recommended at all:

https://support.claris.com/s/article/OS-level-file-sharing-can-lead-to-file-corruption-1503692965123?language=en_US

--sd

[comment]

Who said anything about OS level file sharing???

 

[Søren Dyhr]

3 minutes ago, comment said:

Who said anything about OS level file sharing???

 

...path, is in my humble opinion way into the OS realm! - Claris says:

Quote

 This includes storing and accessing your files while stored on a cloud service such as iCloud or Google Drive.

 

[comment]

I don't think we read the question in the same way.

 

[Søren Dyhr]

1 minute ago, comment said:

I don't think we read the question in the same way.

Why does a product as Mirrorsync from 360work ... give any meaning at all, if it weren't required at all? 

What i could imagine, similar could done is approaching an API such as Google, with every change made in the app ... but the calls need to be stacked and delivered each time when the connection is up. 

The problem with the iCloud as storage is only the copy of the file is entered into the Go app, but all changes are not stored, but instead offloaded via the protocol into a recieving server if it exists. It would require that a fmserver as well is to be found on the iPad/iphone - it aligns very well with posters experienced behaviour. Because he can see the file in his OS ... here iOs, but nothing have actually happend to it.

What the server does is among other things, to lock a record from intruders ... here (under filesharing) the morphing of the data inside the file, simply by transfering with an overwriting file ... and if nothing is stored locally yet - is it not doing anything with the copies either. 

I would suggest one of the cheepest subscriptions from here:

https://www.fmphost.com/our-services/filemaker-shared-hosting

...and if offline situations occurs buy Mirrorsync:

https://www.fmphost.com/our-services/360works-mirrorsync-and-zulu-hosting

--sd 

 

 

 

 

[comment]

11 minutes ago, Søren Dyhr said:

Why does a product as Mirrorsync from 360work ... give any meaning at all, if it weren't required at all? 

That's a funny logic: if a product is offered, then it is required.

Well, I think the EMD® GT42AC Freight Locomotive from Progress Rail Services Corporation gives plenty of meaning. Still, I don't think I need to purchase it for my needs...

[Søren Dyhr]

Ha ha ... but no - I had som 25 years ago implemented a solution, which was peer to peer where 5 copies of filemaker began to give exactly that kind of ..."inconstent" performance, and we learned back then the hard way, that os-level filesharing !!!! should !!!! be turned off, to prevent opening a file stored somewhere else in the local network. I've back then considered a file in filemaker realm as a particular piece of real estate on a harddrive ... but it's living inside a server application to which calls are made via the protocol, especially designed to such manipulations.

There must be a mechanism present, to avoid more than one client changing the same records data or inserting a new record where other users might expect another record and if you open say a Numbers sheet shared by others in the same local network there is in Numbers a "marker" that show other users where the modification actually is done. Now filemaker have on the other hand tried to accommodate it so up to 250 concurrent users can work with the same data, but it has to be by cutting the connection to the original file, and setting in a record locking mechanism via the stream of the protocol instead. Or would you prefer 230+ markers in the same record as you would wish to change ever so slightly? 

Perhaps  Numbers and Google Sheets today having an upper hand when deploying something cross-platform, but if you do not care, might a user accidentally delete a row or a column in a shared solution ... which might be vital to the entire operation - I see such a detail, a little tougher to pull off deliberately with filemakers elaborate security setting as well as being protocol only, when shared. 

--sd

 

[comment]

5 hours ago, Søren Dyhr said:

 isn't it recommended at all:

https://support.claris.com/s/article/OS-level-file-sharing-can-lead-to-file-corruption-1503692965123?language=en_US

5 hours ago, comment said:

Who said anything about OS level file sharing???

1 hour ago, Søren Dyhr said:

we learned back then the hard way, that os-level filesharing !!!! should !!!! be turned off,

This seems to be going in a circle, so I'll just get off now.

 

Edited March 30 by comment

[Søren Dyhr]

Then make a test for your self, open a random filemaker file at make a loop creating say a million filled records and in a an adjacent window monitor when the changes actually is reciprocated in the files and the modification timestamp associated with the file shown in a directory?

Nothinng at all happens with the file before the application is closed completely! If the solution have been server based could everybody logged in withness the record count changing in realtime. 

So in order to circumvent this behaviour, must some sort of automation be active and close down the app each time just after the user does something - did you have something like Appium or some custom java scripting in mind for this?

--sd

[comment]

48 minutes ago, Søren Dyhr said:

Nothinng at all happens with the file before the application is closed completely!

That's more to the point of the question, as I read it. However, my observation shows something completely different:

I opened "a random filemaker file", modified a single field and committed the record. It's true that at this point the file's modification timestamp did not change in the Finder window. But: when I refreshed the Finder window by going back to the parent folder and forward again, the file was shown as modified within the last minute. This was without closing the file - not to mention the application.

Now, the way I understand the OP's description is that they enter some data into a file on the iPhone, then close the file, copy it to iCloud - and when they open the copy, the entered data is not there. So either they are copying the wrong file or there is more to this story than what we are told.

 

Edited March 30 by comment

[Søren Dyhr]

1 hour ago, comment said:

then close the file, copy it to iCloud - and when they open the copy, the entered data is not there.

Claris write that it's expected behaviour, iCloud mirrors the files, but not when it's actually done ... and what should happen to other users input, say the other side creates a new record on exactly the same spot in the indexing, which one should then be the surviving one? All record locking alarm bells are chiming to avail at all.

But in stead of doing it, with os-level sharing, could web direct be used, where everything is rendered as html/css and a execution cycle prevents users in the same record to overwrite each others entries. But its not done via GO, but instead the browser in the iPhone.

10 hours ago, Tpaairman said:

those changes are saved, but the file that's in the on my phone folder of Files is not being updated with the changes. 

...my question is then what makes the changes saved? The Flush Cache to Disk script step does not, even thoug it was supposed to????  

 

--sd

[Tpaairman]

For the love of.......

I appreciate that everyone wants to help, but nobody has.  So let me address a couple things.  First of all, this is a file that I am using on my phone.  It's something simple that I use it for, and it will be used at times while I'm flying places, so I won't have internet, and therefor can't use it if it lives in the cloud.  However, the reason I'm asking about iCloud is that is simply my backup solution.  Every now and then I can simply have FM Go save a copy of it to my iCloud folder.  But, there is no one else in this world that will ever use this particular file, except for me. 

Originally, since I had the file saved to the On My Phone folder in the Files app, and in FM Go is says On My Phone, I had assumed that was the same folder, but quickly realized it is not.  So, that is why I'm asking the very simple question, where on my phone is this file actually residing?

2 hours ago, Søren Dyhr said:

...my question is then what makes the changes saved? The Flush Cache to Disk script step does not, even thoug it was supposed to???? 

OK, maybe I wrote this wrong.  What I simply mean is, I open the file, and add a new record, or change something in a field.  Once the record is committed, those changes are now saved to the file.  So in other words, I've simply made some change.  The point is that after I entered new data, I then sent a copy of the file that was in my phone's Files app back to my laptop, and the new data wasn't there, which means that when FM Go opened it, it has to have saved a new copy of it somewhere because those changes are showing up as they should, 

[comment]

32 minutes ago, Tpaairman said:

where on my phone is this file actually residing?

You haven't answered my question:

10 hours ago, comment said:

Does the Get(FilePath) function work in FM Go?

I don't use FM Go, so I am afraid that's all I can suggest.

 

[Tpaairman]

24 minutes ago, comment said:

You haven't answered my question:

 

At this point, I'm not sure which question you are referring to, but to address what I can see, about the Get (Filepath) function, I was not aware that it was there, and haven't tried it yet.

But, since you have said you don't use Go, I may need to clarify something.  You're probably aware that on the iPhone, you have the Files app, which is sort of like the finder on a Mac computer, and you have have one folder for iCloud, and another called On My Phone.  The problem is, in FM Go, when you navigate to whatever file you want, there is a location called On My Phone and when I went to that, there was my file that I had saved to my phone in Files.  When you have a FM file on your computer, you can see that file in the location where you saved it, and when you make changes to that file, it's still that same file you can see when you go to the saved location.  So, I obviously assumed that it works the same way on the phone.  However, one key thing I found right off is that unlike the computer version, you cannot just open the file from the Files app.  You have to go to to FM Go, and open it from there.

Being new to this, I wanted to test things out, and so I opened the file, entered some text into a field, just so there were changes, then closed the app.  I then went to the Files app on my phone, and saved a copy of what was there to the iCloud folder, so I could then open the file on my computer.  What I would have expected was that when I opened it up on my laptop, I would see the new data I entered, but it was not there.  It was the same as before I opened it with FM Go.  And then I noticed that in Files, the time still showed the time the file was added to my phone.

But, I went back to FM Go, and saw my changes were in fact still there, so I saved a copy from FM Go to my iCloud folder in Files, and then back on my laptop, I opened up that newly copied file, and my changes were there.

So what this tells me is that even though FM Go shows a location named On My Phone, and you always open your file there, it is not saving anything you do to the file that's in the On My Phone folder in your Files app.

Since I posted this originally, I have come up with a solution to what I want to do.  I had thought that the copy of my file that's in the FIles app was where the data was being written the same as you would a file on your computer, I was going to save a copy of that to my iCloud folder.  But, I've now found that I can save a copy of it from within the FM Go app, basically exporting a copy, I can just do that, and have it save right to my iCloud folder.  I'm still not sure exactly where the file is on my phone that FM Go is saving to, but this does what I need.

The other end of this, and this takes care of another issue I had posted about, is I can then open that file on my laptop, make any changes I want to the layout as I'm tweaking it, then go back to my phone, delete the copy in the app, and re open it.  I won't be entering any new data while I'm making those changes, and since I'm the one and only user of this file, it will work just fine.

[Søren Dyhr]

11 hours ago, Tpaairman said:

But, I've now found that I can save a copy of it from within the FM Go app, basically exporting a copy, I can just do that, and have it save right to my iCloud folder.  I'm still not sure exactly where the file is on my phone that FM Go is saving to, but this does what I need.

NIce move indeed, because I think it never really existed outside the RAM ... because of the protocol dependent delivery method, and why Claris won't suggest file level sharing. Another issue is this:

https://talk.tidbits.com/t/cloudy-with-a-chance-of-insanity-unsticking-icloud-drive/24851

...which is an account of how reliable iCloud is to be taken, in mission critical cases. So perhaps you should send your clone as e-mail attachment as well?

How ever is there some licensing issues lurking around here, in an attempt to be penny wise and not pound foolish. Even though bound runtimes doesn't exists any more, with the later versions ... runtimes are deprecated - but one could still pull it off with say fm15, and have the file on the device, but the bound runtime should then import the audit log from the device version, or let each instance communicate over a connection made to a MongoDB:

--sd

Edited March 31 by Søren Dyhr

[NLR]

Confusion is caused by the way iPhone works.  All apps operate within a closed garden or sandbox which means that FMGo has its own secure directory where it keeps everything it needs.  That includes a place to store all your files which it calls "On my iPhone".

Likewise there's a separate app on the iPhone called "Files".  The confusion is caused by "Files" having within its own sandbox, a place where it also stores local files.  It's also called "On my iPhone"!

That means you could have the same-named file in both places, and think they're the same - but they aren't.  When you open a file in FMGo it opens it from it's own sandbox and saves it there too.  It has nothing to do with the "Files" app.

As an aside, if you use Airdrop to transfer a file from your computer to your phone there's an unfortunate behaviour happening (it seems to me to be a new thing in a recent iOS update).  That is the file ends up somewhere within the "Files" app!  From there you have to (share) send a copy of it across to FMGo.  And then remember to delete the first one in the Downloads folder of "Files"

Very cumbersome to put it mildly!

Ralph

 

[Søren Dyhr]

6 hours ago, NLR said:

Confusion is caused by the way iPhone works.  All apps operate within a closed garden or sandbox which means that FMGo has its own secure directory where it keeps everything it needs.  That includes a place to store all your files which it calls "On my iPhone".

Likewise there's a separate app on the iPhone called "Files".  The confusion is caused by "Files" having within its own sandbox, a place where it also stores local files.  It's also called "On my iPhone"!

That means you could have the same-named file in both places, and think they're the same - but they aren't.  When you open a file in FMGo it opens it from it's own sandbox and saves it there too.  It has nothing to do with the "Files" app.

As an aside, if you use Airdrop to transfer a file from your computer to your phone there's an unfortunate behaviour happening (it seems to me to be a new thing in a recent iOS update).  That is the file ends up somewhere within the "Files" app!  From there you have to (share) send a copy of it across to FMGo.  And then remember to delete the first one in the Downloads folder of "Files"

Very cumbersome to put it mildly!

Ralph

 

Excellent eksplanation, and it also explains why sending a clone to another platform ....works?

--sd

Edited April 1 by Søren Dyhr

[Philip Rand]

I neee only to send files to iPAD and iPhone. Air Drop used to do the trick, but my new devices (15 Max Pro and iPad Pro) seem to send them to "File" (or iCloud Drive) and I use the share function to get them in FilemakerGo (all mentioned devices are duly updated. Now, if I manage to get them from the OX computer to a device, they arrive numbered. An fmp file called "assets" comes out as "assets 1, 2, etc.) Claris suggests making a copy of the file, etc. but the copy is renamed. How did it happen that Airdrop is no longer suggested in the advice given on line, and Claris suggests making the transfer via USB cable?

[Søren Dyhr]

On 8/22/2024 at 6:45 PM, Philip Rand said:

How did it happen that Airdrop is no longer suggested in the advice given on line, and Claris suggests making the transfer via USB cable?

Probably a vulnerability ...which we're likely to be protected against? But it brings up another question, why is the transfer of importance? Are you living in an area with vaguely present connectivity?

If not, then subscribe to a hosting service, say a solution doesn't need all the bells and whistles - could it be served as cheap as 20€ per month, ticking almost all GDPR-boxes known to mankind.

--sd

[Philip Rand]

In answer to your question: after updating a Filmmaker file, I want to put copies of that file in my devices (iPhone, iPad). I want to keep the updated .fmps on my hardisk (Mac OS). I do not even attempt to revise the counterpart device files to recopy them back to the hard disk. Once the process was straightforward and easy, now it has become complicated in the ways I described previously. The advent of the app "Files" has further complicated matters.

[Søren Dyhr]

I do fuldt get your grievence here, but Claris have apparently found your way of deploying a solution too …. Dangerous. 
 

What i then suggest, you instead begins to get hosting from a provider, where you then  Can approach it as a protocol instead a physical file, the way over 80% of all FileMaker solutions are aprroached, where copying files somewhere is past tense

—sd

[Philip Rand]

God dag, I solved the problem. My Filemaker basic files are in the iCloud Storage.  Filemaker suggests sending a copy to iPhone and iPad. This seems to be working, as long as I do not try to revise files from these devices, using the computer-based file for that purpose.