FM Was Created Using....

[kenneth2k1]

Hello forum:

I have to write a paper on what programming languages are used at my office. Since none are directly used, I am going to talk about the languages used to create the apps at the office.

So, does anyone know for certain what language FM was developed in? C? C++? Some secret code the public doesn't know about locked away in Nevada?

Thanks for the help.

Ken

[Vaughan]

If you're stuck I'd argue that on a broad level we are using FMP as a programming *environment* which includes interface and scripting elements.

FMP probably has little bits of 68000 assembly code buried in it somewhere, a legacy of its FileMaker and FileMaker II days.

[kenneth2k1]

Hey Vaughan:

Not exactly stuck (I'm never stuck- Ive written so many papers, I'm a world class BSer). It's what the teacher wanted.

I will still talk about what I do with FM. Along with the other apps used.

Regarding 68000, are you talking about Motorola 68K? I have never heard of it prior to reading your post. I would appreciate more info from you, and I will also do my own research.

Thanks for the help.

[BobWeaver]

Filemaker was written with a special Fortran compiler that compiles into an f-code pseudo-assembly language, which in turn is executed by an f-code interpreter. This explains why it was so easy for FMI to port it from the Mac to Windows. It was simply a matter of writing a windows f-code interpreter. The use of Fortran pretty much explains the power of Filemaker's text processing functions.

[jasonwood]

Yes, 68000 refers to the "sixty-eight thousand series" of processors... all the way from the 68000 to the 68040. After the 68040, Apple switched to PowerPC which remained backwards compatible with 68xxx programs but required a partial rewrite to take advantage of the PowerPC.

I'm having trouble remembering the details, but I think around the conversion time many programs were designated "Made for PowerPC" and would only run on PowerPC, while others were "FAT" which contained code for both processors wrapped into one app.

Kinda similar in a way to today where we see "Carbonized" for software that runs in new and old OS, and "Made for Mac OS X" which runs only in OS X.

[kennedy]

The use of Fortran pretty much explains the power of Filemaker's text processing functions.

LOL! That explains a lot! Had they chosen SNOBOL instead...

If I write them a regexp lib in FORTRAN, do you think they'll incorporate it?

The things I learn on this forum!

[LiveOak]

Egad! I didn't think there was anyone else still alive that used SNOBOL 4 (developed at Bell Labs)! It was truly great text parsing language. Ideal for compilers and assemblers.

I'm afraid I also remember the 4004, 8008, 8080, Z80, 6800, 6502, TMS9900 and when I2L was the up and coming IC technology (I think I still have an 8008). The 68000 and 8086 are relative newcommers .

-bd

[SteveB]

As an ex-FORTRAN jock, I know that in its native form string handling sucks. BUT, with a little creativity you can get it to do a very admirable job. Something is obviously missing with the FMI implementation of string handling (yuch!)...but it isn't Fortran's fault.

[kenneth2k1]

Thanks for the info, guys

ken

[BobWeaver]

As an ex-FORTRAN jock, I know that in its native form string handling sucks. BUT, with a little creativity you can get it to do a very admirable job.

Darn right! The original Adventure game was written in Fortran.

LiveOak: Those 4004's are a little too modern for my taste. Sure, they can process data but they won't keep your house warm on a cold day like a PDP-8 will.

[LiveOak]

I didn't exactly tell the truth, by the time the 4004 had arrived I'd work on IBM 1620's, 360/44's, and 360/65's. Still have my JCL manual somewhere!

-bd

[Kurt Knippel]

Actually I think that FM 3 - 4.x were written in Pascal, with FMP 5 and 6 redeveloped in C or one of its variants.

[BobWeaver]

Was the 360/44 you used an electric or a gasoline powered version? I seem to remember, on the gasoline powered ones, the choke would stick and the darn thing would flood, but when it got warmed up, wow, lookit it go!

If we keep this thread going long enough we'll probably find someone who programmed Babbage's difference engine. Hmm... so, this is where all the burnt out programmers end up -- Filemaker developers. What a frightening thought.

[kenneth2k1]

Well I don't know from 360/44, I was born in 1978. But I appreciate everyone's contribution. I guess now all I'm looking for is someone to say that their as close to 100% that "FM was programmed with.."

Thanks all

Ken

[BobWeaver]

Well Captkurt's opinion is probably as close as you'll get here. Back in the old days most professional Mac software was written in Pascal and then at some point (early to mid 1990's ?), most programmers switched over to C.

[SteveB]

Well I'm glad that there are guys that remember the 360s...the elderly love company. The 360's were wood-fired, and the backup power was gerbils operating a treadmill. Also used old paper tape as a power source. 10 chars per second was the fastest input remote device.

Ken, you're still green (or I've rotted and don't know it). I had my own consulting and dev business in 1978.

[kenneth2k1]

Oh yea, I'm green as hell compared to all of you! My first computer experience was in 2nd grade playing Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe. When I reminisce about it with my friends, I feel old but I can't relate to FORTRAN and all this other history!

[Bob White]

My first programming training was in IBM7010 machine language back in the mid-1960's. The 7010 is the predecessor to the 360 series. Don't ask me any questions about it cuz I forgot every bit of it at least 30 years ago!

[Vaughan]

I must be a "cross-over" kid: just young enough NOT to have learned how to use a slide rule (pocket calculators just came in when I was in my early teens) but too old for personal computers at school.

I remember in Year 12 our high school was loaned a Wang computer for a while. No software of course, we had to type the code in by hand each time because it had no storage, not even a tape drive. I remember me and another guy got 3/4 through typing in a game when it ran out of memory -- must have been just 16kB.

I still have the first computer I ever used professionally: a Macintosh II circa 1988, 14 years old (the original PRAM batteries still working too). My kids use it for games like Bolo and Civilisation etc. With 256 colours, 8MB RAM, 40MB internal hard disk, external SCSI CDROM, built in multi-voice sound and networking, even by today's standards it's still an impressive machine... just slow.

Does anybody else love and collect old computers? I have a MacII, IIfx, SE...

[LiveOak]

I try not to collect, but I do have a collection including a Mac Plus, two Mac IIci's, a Quadra 700,and a PowerBook 540c. We setup the Mac Plus and FileMaker 1.0 (not FileMaker Pro 1.0, the one prior to FileMaker II) in the FM Forums booth at DevCon 2002. Oh, I also have an old Intertec Superbrain CPM80 machine.

-bd

[Vaughan]

Wow, an "Intertec Superbrain." They sure knew how to name computers back then didn't they! Sounds like somthing from Lost in Space... "Crush, Kill, Destroy! Crush, Kill, Destroy...."

I'd say that one would be a keeper, just for the name alone.

[BobWeaver]

I don't collect old computers, but I have a Western Electric fax machine made in 1946, a wire recorder made around the same time and a few radios from 1930 to 1939. They all work too. There's nothing like the smell of overheated resistors and bakelite.

Someday I plan to build a computer out of 6SN7 vacuum tubes if I can find about 1000 of them cheap.

[LiveOak]

Oooooh! Medium-Mu Twin Triode... I found about 52 entries on ebay. They are going for $2.50 to $5.00 each. 5692 premium/mil versions seem to be going for $20-$25 each. Octal tube sockets are also getting harder to find. Better stock up on 5R4's and 5881/6L6's for your power supplies.

-bd

[BobWeaver]

No need for MIL spec; just operate the 6SN7's heater at 5 volts and they last forever. That's what they did on ENIAC. By operating with heater and plate voltages well below design values, they were able to get a MTBF (mean time between failures) of nearly an hour!

...don't expect FileMaker will run on it though.

[SteveB]

I've got 5AR4s which I think will work in place of the 5R4s that I can send you. With enough of them, you can stay warm at night...also can cook dinner on them.

[jasonwood]

I convert old Apple carcasses into MacQuariums. There's a picture of my first creation on this newsletter:

http://www.canadiancomputer.com/updates/2002-03/index.html

[paulage77]

Hmm... so, this is where all the burnt out programmers end up -- Filemaker developers. What a frightening thought.

That's darn right! I've made an untimely move already. Straight from C++ to FileMaker

[RussBaker]

Well, my first mac was a new Mac Plus, but before that I had a Tandy M100 "laptop" with a huge 24K of RAM and an 8 line x 40 character screen that you could only read at midday on the summer solstice. I had to write my own "word processor" for it, which took up 6K of RAM.

It still works...

[Vaughan]

Well Russ, if we're gonna get into old computers... I still have a Macintosh II 8/40 that my kids use for games. Built in 1988 it's still on its original PRAM batteries! The 40 MB Qantum hard disk in it sounds like a jet engine.

Even compared with my iMac, the Mac II is pretty impressive: it's got everything except raw processing speed. It puts four year old PCs to shame.