Adding a Blank to a Value List

[LaRetta]

Hi everyone!

Sometimes a User may accidently choose a value from a pop-up menu but then change their minds. They want the value to instead remain blank. I tried adding a line to the value list with only one space so they can de-select a previously chosen value; however, this doesn't work. I tested report summaries and the space is treated as blank as far as grouping records but fields with the space sort AFTER blanks.

I suppose I could add a button next to the pop-up to clear the field but I wanted to check first and find out how you all handle this situation. Or should I just use pop-up lists and educate my Users on how to click again to enter the field?

LaRetta

[Lee Smith]

Hi LaRetta,

Just have a script attached to a button that basically uses the setfield function (i.e. setfield (Your Field, "").

HTH

Lee

[LaRetta]

Hi Lee!

I was afraid you'd say that! It's too bad that FM doesn't allow a nul-value line to be added to Value Lists Ahhhh well, it's still the best program in the world so I won't complain too loudly. Thanks for responding

LaRetta

[Lee Smith]

Wait a minute.

It's easier than that. I just added a return in the value list and it stuck. Now if I have a value and then choose that "Blank", it enters it.

I playing with a demo of FM 6, at the moment, so I'm not sure if this works in earlier versions.

But it's worth a try.

Lee

[Vaughan]

Hold the Shift key down while selecting the value you want to clear from the pop-up list (or the radio button).

[LaRetta]

Hi Lee!

That's a great idea and thank you for trying to find a solution for me - I really appreciate it! Hmm, however I dislike

[djgogi]

It's not how is made but what the user is percieving, so...

That's what I would do in such situation:

After adding "#Clear" element in your value list create an additional calculation field as

Case(theValueListField!="#Clear",theValueListField)

Put it above your pop up list, make it background color to body color (or of underneeth field) and disallow entry ii it.

Dj

[LaRetta]

Hi Dj,

Oh thanks for the idea! Okay, I added CLEAR to the Status Value List then created a calc (text, unstored) Case(Status="CLEAR",Status) and placed this calc as you suggested. Then I selected 'clear' from the Value List but it displayed the 'clear'?? I then changed the calc to: Case(Status="CLEAR","", Status) and that works. Then I can use the cStatus in all functions. Is this what you're suggesting or am I misinterpreting your idea? And why should the calc be displayed on the form?

LaRetta

[djgogi]

It's OK.

BTW I wrote != (that's not equal)

Dj

[LaRetta]

Hi Dj,

Oh Now that makes sense. I tried to change the calc to Case(Status != "CLEAR", Status)and it said it couldn't find the field?? When I use the <> instead of !=, it works But why should it be on the form? Just so Users can see it 'cleared?'

LaRetta

[djgogi]

Just so Users can see it 'cleared?'

Yes, that would give the user impression that he/she realy cleared the field.

And yes use the new created calculation field instead of original pop list elsewhere.

Dj

[djgogi]

BTW, I've put the # as prefix to "clear" to insure that it will be the first item in the list.

Dj

[LaRetta]

Hi Dj!

This solves my problem perfectly - thank you

I'll add the # to the front of clear and display the calc field. Thanks so much for an easy answer and I can still sort and sum on the calc!!

LaRetta

[LaRetta]

Just an update for everyone! This is based upon my use of FM vs.6 and that may be why many of the above ideas didn't work for me, and I may also have mis-interpreted everyone's suggestions.

Adding a # to the beginning of a Value List item doesn't cause it to show up first in a Value List - it didn't change the sort order of the Value List at all. I couldn't get shift-select to delete an inserted value from a Value List field. And scripts or calcs aren't even necessary to resolve this problem, nor is adding a space in a Value List.

What does work is ... Add a blank line at the BEGINNING of a Value List (Lee's suggestion of the CR but it should be at the beginning). Then when selected, a nul-value will be inserted. Oh so simple!! Thanks CobaltSky for clarifying this for us all

LaRetta

[Razumovsky]

I tend to have all my value lists start with:

"

*

value1

value2

value3

etc...

"

so that a blank space can be entered, as well as selecting the wildcard "*" for finds.

[Lee Smith]

Hi Razumovsky,

Thanks for sharing, I'm putting one in my tip files for future use.

Lee

[LaRetta]

Hi Razumovsky

Well I really liked your idea of adding the '*' but something came to mind. Displaying * in a data Value List might confuse some Users (you know how they can be), and what if they (Lord forbid) SELECTED it in Browse? I envision having *s popping up at random in my data and I just wonder if it's worth it!

LaRetta

[JenMorley]

This thread has some weird suggestions!

Like LaRetta says, putting *s on lists is not going to help much.

Any users that are so green that they need them there are probably also so green they won't know what to do with them and won't realise that they aren't just another data entry option.

If anyone is going to take Razumovsky up on his tip, I sure hope they know how to search for asterisks, so that they will be able to fix up all the data entry bloopers.

[Razumovsky]

Valid points indeed.

I suppose I should have qualified this by saying that it is intended for pop up menus during a find where other values not on the menu cannot be added. I have yet to encounter any problems with this method, but I also include a hefty amount of verification scripts to make sure the forms are filled in correctly (or at least with valid data).

I am not a big fan of pop up Menu's over Lists, but have had them requested by clients for things that have a small number of choices to select.

I have also had limited success in training users to use find commands like * ! ... and omit that are not accesible through lists.

Anyway, for essential data fields, the accidental selection of * is definitely something to watch out for.

[LaRetta]

Hi Razumovsky,

Oh! I don't think we realized that you were saying that you provide alternate value lists for browse and find modes; selected dynamically by script according to mode by using the Status(CurrentMode) function. We thought you had the * in your Value List (silly, huh)! Come to think of it, I feel a bit the same about using CLEAR

Because if one were to use their real value list, that * will show just as readily in Browse OR Find. Well, I suppose one could also add a validation by calculation to the Value List field in Field Defs - something like [not PatternCount(ValueListField, "*"], and de-select 'only if field has bee modified'. That way, it wouldn't accept * in Browse, but would allow a find on the *. I just hate to risk confusing my Users with non-data items in fields

LaRetta

[Razumovsky]

Hi Laretta,

I was in my own little database world, and was not being clear. For my databases, I automate all finds with scripts and buttons to disallow user abort, go to a seprate layout (identical to the first, but without all the fields locked)enter find mode, pause, perform find, return to original layout. So, I actually do have "*" in my value lists. When viewing records, there are no value lists as all fields are set to not allow entry. Records are created/edited one record at a time in a seperate layout that has a "finished" button which runs a verification script checking that there is valid data in all essential fields, so if someone does select "*" or " " from the value list, a popup occurs that says something like "Please select the delivery method" and goes back to the field.

I dont do all this just to havc "*" and " " in value lists be OK, I actually never even considered the problem of selecting one of these two values (I will now). I do all this to make sure that records are filled out correctly and not modified accidently - the rest is just a biproduct.

Cheers!

[djgogi]

The # WILL put the list item to the FIRST position, but you have to specify "the default language for sort" to ASCII.

The methode I've suggested is valid for EVERY type of list and not only for STATIC list as in Ray's suggestion .

On the other side if you think that includining some non data values in your list could create confusion...

Now if the number of the items (and their values) are constant in time, than the Ray suggestion is perfect solution for you.

Define the list as use custom values and add blank line as the very first item in the list.

But if you'll need to update the list dinamically or if you'll need to add/eliminate some entries than the custom value list is the worst choice.

Never let end-users manipulate the values in the list directly, you don't now how much damage they could provocate.

Also in the case of value list from field and/or relational value list the blank-line-solution WILL NOT work.

DJ

[Natalie]

You are SHOUTING in capital letters because you do not like to admit you were wrong, wrong wrong.

But what you are shouting is complete rubbish!

I tried what you are suggesting here and you have WASTED my time!!! Custom value lists do NOT sort an item to the first position, whether you have ASCII sorting or any other sorting. Putting an # or any character at the front doesn't make any difference. Even your shouting doesn't make a difference!

[Lee Smith]

No, you are wrong. Shouting is when most, or all of a message is in caps.

There is a BIG difference between this and someone using a few capitalizes words, in order to emphasize some important parts of a post. It would be the same thing if he had used underline, bold, or in some other way in order to pull attention to a few words.

It is also important to consider the content in which they are used. For instance, I took no offense to DJ's use of bold and capitalization in his post, as it was obvious to me that he was attempting to point out important parts of his post. On the other hand, I did take a lot of offense to your direct attack of him, with or without caps, bold, or whatever.

You need to learn list etiquette, and more importantly, a few manners.

I sure wouldn't count on lot of help in the future, as you have undoubtedly alienated several participators of this list.

Lee

[djgogi]

Have you tried to set the Default language for the sort or indexing of the SOURCE FIELD FOR THE VALUE LIST instead of the one you have attached the list to ?

Check the file I've attached.

Dj

BTW, who ever said that the CUSTOM value list would sort their items on some other criteria other than the insertion order. They are called CUSTOM, or I'm wrong

CustomOrderedList.zip

[Ugo DI LUCA]

you are the only one (and first I've seen) shouting here ! Get rid of your caps and find another therapy.