Breaking out of SINGLE USER

[Anatoli]

RE: Ah Anatoli. I can tell you are too full of yourself. I have programmed under so many different conditions that the platform does not matter to me. I was programming before you were a twinkle in your parents' eyes.

That is possible. I am second oldest here; Lee is slightly older. Maybe you are oldest. That's OK with me. It doesn't prove anything.

RE: Like DATA and INTERFACE linked. You say they don't have to be. Hmmmmm Not from what you and others have said here. What I mean by linked is that I can not take the interface (LAYOUT) and work on it and then just plop it in again.

I have to take the whole database, do the work, and then bring it up again.

I am updating just the interface in one installation and it is pulling data just from FM server. Totally separated. Some people are using it some not. That's OK with me.

RE: If I want to edit and test a script, I have to do it on a different machine and then re-do it all into the live version after shutting it down because you can't do it while it is running.

I am editing scripts and layouts every day in several installations remotely over ISDN line and Terminal services. During office peak hours. FM is truly wonderful application in this aspect.

I am adding fields as exclusive user WITHOUT taking server down, without stopping FM server. Usually in night, because users have to be kicked out.

RE: Very rare actually to find a FM system.

Not so in California. Even government offices are using FM there.

RE: Frustration sets in as I get your type of attitude and answers.

Well take it or leave it. That's OK with me.

I was trying to help *for free* and start from beginning. You prefer to do things your way. Hush-patch job. That's OK with me.

BTW -- I have largest number of answers in this and some other forum. I've helped many users. You are refusing start from beginning. That's OK with me.

[DonH]

I'll try posting this here.

Trying to run a script on a workstation that accesses the main file on FM Server. It doesn't work.

So I tried to open the main file in FMP and I found that it was set to single user and I can not change it to multi user. I've looked at the script that is run on opening the file but can't find anything that locks it into single user.

Is this a function of FM Server even when it is not running?

[Vaughan]

You need to close the file on the FM Server, then open itin FMP and change the sharing setting. Then close FMP and open the file in FMS again.

It might be a good idea to wait till you can close all the files in FMS, open them all in FMP and check their sharing is set appropriately. If one is wrong then more might be too.

[Anatoli]

DonH, I've warned you several times, that your FM server is not working properly and you are probably using wrongly FM databases and by doing so, you are loosing data.

Isn't that another indicator, that you should open the manuals?

I have feeling, that you are probably master of SQL. That knowledge in FM world is next to useless. Nothing in FM universe works like something somewhere else

[DonH]

Anatoli, I think I've made it quite clear that it isn't working properly but so far you have offered nothing worthwhile other than comments like "that is impossible" when it is happening. I also get that it must be operator error instead of FM error.

I HAVE opened the manuals. They are worthless. That is why I come here. But some of these questions are obviously stumping the "experts".

One thing to remember, I did not create this application. The person who did was a self-proclaimed expert in FM3 at the time. Even I can see he was clueless because his data structure is crap and his programming is worse, just from a logic point of view.

FM is junk. Plain and simple. But I have to live with it for a while. I know many will take exception to that, but the very fact that the data and the interface are inextricably linked is a flaw that is impossible to overlook.

Now, having scoured the manuals, and finding nothing of substance about this issue, let me ask again.

I shut down FM server. All files are closed. I open the file in FMP and it will not go to MULTIUSER. IF I copy the file to another workstation and open it there in FMP it will go to MULTIUSER. BUT if I copy it back onto FMS, once again, it won't. This tells me there is a setting somewhere saying that MULTIUSER is not allowed on the FMS except under the FMS.

BUT here is the basic issue. I have a script running on another computer under the FM Runtime environment that is attempting to access a script on the FMS in the primary file. It doesn't work.

It used to work. Everybody around here swears to that. Why it stopped working is puzzling. However, somehow I have to get it working again.

Maybe instead I should ask this question. Is it possible for FM to detect (without looping) when a file is present and when it isn't? Right now, the script just loops looking at a folder. If I try to run it on FMS with the main files, the looping stops everything else from working.

[Vaughan]

Did the developer license the product for multi-user use, or did you buy a single-user license?

It could be that the developer has included a script that forces the file to single user mode when opened in FMS. Check the file's startup scripts for something.

You do have the master password for the file?

[DonH]

That is what I thought about. I know he has scripted in things like not allowing editing. What command would lock it into SINGLE? I don't see anything that looks like it.

When the main file (CHART) opens it runs a script called INITIALIZE1

Here is the script:

Allow User Abort[Off]

Set Error Capture[On]

Toggle Window[Minimize]

Toggle Status Area[Hide, Lock]

Then it goes thru opening all the rest of the files it needs.

[-Queue-]

Add Set Multi-User [On] to this initial script. If the developer has no Set Multi-User [Off] steps anywhere, then you'll be set.

[Vaughan]

The problem is when you are opening the file in FMP on the server, right... is that copy of FMP set up correctly? If the network option set to none (in the application preferences) FMP cannot open the file multi-user because the network is disabled.

I often set the copy of FMP on my servers to "none" to stop users from connecting in as guests while the files are open.

[Anatoli]

RE: FM is junk. Plain and simple. But I have to live with it for a while. I know many will take exception to that, but the very fact that the data and the interface are inextricably linked is a flaw that is impossible to overlook.

I give up.

Multi-Million bucks companies are happy with that you are not. That's ok with me.

Data and interface linked -- hmm you don't have to use it that way. I am using it both ways, linked and unlinked. Works both ways for me.

RE: I open the file in FMP and it will not go to MULTIUSER

Hmm if you have network protocol selected as NONE, how it can go to MULTIUSER?

IMHO -- not to discount your other abilities -- you will learn FM and then you can be useful to that company. So far you are not willing to do that, you started with very wrong attitude and it shows. Why did you take that job?

During 11 years with FM in all my installations I didn't experienced so many problems, like you are in single day. There aren't any problems -- if you do it properly and not your way -- jumping around without having clue about what you are doing.

[DonH]

Ah Anatoli. I can tell you are too full of yourself. I have programmed under so many different conditions that the platform does not matter to me. I was programming before you were a twinkle in your parents' eyes.

I don't think you understand 99% of what I am saying tho so it is hard to converse with you.

Like DATA and INTERFACE linked. You say they don't have to be. Hmmmmm Not from what you and others have said here. What I mean by linked is that I can not take the interface (LAYOUT) and work on it and then just plop it in again. I have to take the whole database, do the work, and then bring it up again.

This is what I am talking about LIVE editing. With say ASP and SQL server, they are seperate. I can refurbish the entire front end and never once worry about the data or keeping somebody from it. Can't do that with FM. If I want to edit and test a script, I have to do it on a different machine and then re-do it all into the live version after shutting it down because you can't do it while it is running.

My attitude was fine until you started in. I am trying to re-learn this. It has been years and years. It is very similar to DBase, which was wonderful when it first came out. If I remember, FM was the Apple answer to DBase. Now major bucks companies have moved on. Very rare actually to find a FM system.

I took the contract because the largest hospital in the pacific basin wanted to get away from FM. Originally I was to convert it to Cold Fusion MX. Then somebody else decided to convert it to .NET. BUT it will be a little while yet and I have problems. I have learned a lot about how this functions by reading up on the manuals but they aren't that good.

So I come to places like this hoping for answers. Frustration sets in as I get your type of attitude and answers.

Way back when I first came in here I said this server was messed up. I was told it was operator error. Now you finally agree with me that the server is messed up. So let's move on to some serious answers.

Like why can't I get a script running on a different machine to run an external script on the server?

And to make everyone happy, I think Java/J2EE is the worst thing to come around since .... well .... EVER. So FM is one step above Java/J2EE. Which I can do also.

So lose the "superior" attitude and come out with some useful suggestions. It don't play in this theater.

[DonH]

Vaughn and Queue

Food for thought. I will have to try adding it to the script. I am realizing that FM does a lot that you have to tell it not to. Or is there a setting in the server that does this as a default. I haven't played around with the server settings because I'm afraid it will crash and never come up again.

I'm still not sure this will solve the problem anyway. The overall problem now being getting a script on a different machine to run a script on the FMS. Just won't do it for some reason. OR there is a problem on the FMS copy that isn't showing up when it is run in FMP.

[DonH]

You don't get it, do you?

Let me quote you "Usually in night, because users have to be kicked out."

EXACTLY!!!! In one sentence you say you don't have to then you say you do have to. Make up your mind.

Is it or is it not possible to do live editing with users connected to the files remotely as guests of the server?

If yes, how?

Well, I programmed my first computer in 1970 in machine language with punch cards. Yup. 1s and 0s. Then moved up to assembly language, Fortran, Cobol, Pascal, Basic, a tad bit of Lisp. Picked up dbase, Lotus, Access (which is actually worse than FM), Perl, Java, ASP, and Cold Fusion, SQL Server/T-SQL.

At one point in there I had to use FM on an Apple. I think it was pre-3.0. Been too long.

Now, if you are trully trying to start at the beginning, which is where I tried to start eons ago and got blown off by you, then do so. Answer questions with actual answers. You remind me of people on that old site ASKME.com who would put forth answers like "Are you stupid?" and leave it at that and then claim zillions of answered questions.

Okay, let's try to see if you can give a coherent answer.

On computer A I have a file called KICKER. It imports a file, copies the SSN, attempts to run an external script on CHART which is on FMS (COMPUTER :. This works fine if it is all in FMP. But when I run it with FMS it won't work. Why is that?

[-Queue-]

Re: booting users. This only need be done when you are adding/modifying field definitions or sharing privileges (i.e. passwords and groups). All other modifications (layouts, scripts, relationships, value lists...) can be done when the file is being hosted by the server, as long as you are using a password with access and the files are set to Multi-User.

Also, what is KICKER? I'm assuming CHART is a FM file. Is CHART shared (set to Multi-User)? Computer A (client) will be the one running the script, not the server. Are you file-sharing via NT sharing? If so, desist immediately as this will provoke much headache.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Going back to some kind of discussion....

Is this file really Single User or is it Multi User (hidden) ?

Is there an underscore character before the .fp3 extension ?

There are good reasons why a developer would hide some files used in a relational db. I know you know your job, that I understood 5/5, but from what you described it was doing....

As this thread keeps being feeded with some useless comments, monologue, and constant lack of civilty, I can't remember if you said which version you used ?

Finally, I noticed in another post that you accessed the files on FMS with an exe application. Did you tried simply by the host button ?

[Anatoli]

-Queue- said:

Re: booting users. This only need be done when you are adding/modifying field definitions or sharing privileges (i.e. passwords and groups). All other modifications (layouts, scripts, relationships, value lists...) can be done when the file is being hosted by the server, as long as you are using a password with access and the files are set to Multi-User.

Also, what is KICKER? I'm assuming CHART is a FM file. Is CHART shared (set to Multi-User)? Computer A (client) will be the one running the script, not the server. Are you file-sharing via NT sharing? If so, desist immediately as this will provoke much headache.

Just above I wrote something similar "I am editing scripts and layouts every day in several installations remotely over ISDN line and Terminal services. During office peak hours. FM is truly wonderful application in this aspect."

That was completely ignored. DonH simply made up his mind. In another paragraph I've described *when* users have to be disconnected. I believe to change structure in dBase or FM one expects to obey rules and do what is necessary. And plan ahead.

I asked DonH many question about his setup. He never answers those. I have feeling that everything is messed up and it is not used as it should be.

You guys are coming in second round and asking the same questions. Maybe DonH will give you the answers. All I've got was zero information, just negative and wrong assumptions. Period.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Anatoli said:

You guys are coming in second round and asking the same questions. Maybe DonH will give you the answers. All I've got was zero information, just negative and wrong assumptions. Period.

But as he seems to not be willing to hear from you...

All we may know is that he is "DA MAN" for any database project, but FM is not "DA SOLUTION" for this Database Man.

[Anatoli]

RE: All we may know is that he is "DA MAN" for any database project, but FM is not "DA SOLUTION" for this Database Man.

You are right.

I didn't doubt that

But to express such direct denial for FM program which is mostly great for thousands programmers is really weird.

You have that in your signature, don't you

[-Queue-]

I agree with Ugo. If this were a chat room and I were Don, I would have put you on 'ignore' by now, Anatoli. So I highly doubt he's paying much attention to anything you say, except to slam it. That's why I jumped into the melee. I'm just as frustrated and annoyed as you appear to be, but it can't be THIS difficult for a programming master to figure out what we're saying. I'm this close to giving up on him, too, but a little non-angry logic might do the trick and push him in the right direction.

[DonH]

Okay, I found the problem with getting into multi-user. On the FMS the files did not have TCP/IP selected. Once that was selected they would change to multi-user.

Anatoli, you have never asked a question about setup that I have not answered. Your high horse is sinking in mud. Let me see if you have answered simple questions yet or just kept in on beating the "FM is the greatest" drum.

Queue, KICKER is a stand alone fm file. All these files except for chart have the extension .fm_ The KICKER.exe (made with SDK) monitors a folder for a file to appear. When a file appears (.dat) it imports it. Does a copy on the SSN field and then attempts to run an external script on CHART.fp3 which resides on the FMS.

(Anatoli may note that I have answered all of these questions at least 3 times before)

In a round about way I think I am getting the answer tho.

I'm beginning to think that even tho the files are running on the FMS they still need to have the TCP/IP selected. Would this be a correct assumption or am I out in left field?

I mean the whole thing works when using the client side application, just not the standalone calling an external script.

Oh, and when I open the files using hosts, they open as guest of the server.

[Anatoli]

-Queue-

You are absolutely right

[Fitch]

"...on the FMS they still need to have the TCP/IP selected..."

Correct, FMS can use a few networking protocols, so you go into the prefs and pick the one you want -- but it's global, you don't set it file-by-file in FMS.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

What Anatoli ?

Yu want to put yourself in your "ignore list"

[Anatoli]

Sure, why not ROFL