Text baselines are layered over text?

[vsiegle]

Just formated a field with text baselines and was surprised to see that the baselines were displayed over the top of text in the field. Not a problem when the text and baseline are the same color but I need the baseline to be different and I certainly don't want the text obscured by the line. Any ideas?

[Lee Smith]

Which Font are you using?

[vsiegle]

Arial 10pt

[Lee Smith]

I can [color:"red"]not reproduce this on a Mac OS X.

I suspect that you have a faulty font. Have you tried other fonts and sizes?

Lee

[vsiegle]

Lee, I have tried different fonts, sizes and databases with same result.

We are talking XP here. Always the primary suspect :-)

[Lee Smith]

I've heard that before.

I guess the next step is to have someone verify this that has the XP setup, or look for a Technical Article at FMI.

Are you using the most recent version of v7?

Lee

[vsiegle]

I'm using version 7.0v3 Developer.

Hopefully someone will chime in that has XP.

On my way to the TAs

[vsiegle]

Nothing that I can find in the Tech Articles about the problem?

[IEW]

I use XP and the base lines come out perfect usinfg Arial 12 point.

[LaRetta]

Hi vsiegle,

I use Developer 7 with XP. There is only one way I can make it duplicate your problem (that I've found so far).

If you select Text Orientation > Sideways (Asian Text Only). I would bet that displays the same (through the text) regardless of OS.

IEW, please don't change the subject of a thread partway through. It makes the thread a bit confusing. Thanks!

LaRetta

[vsiegle]

LaRetta,

That makes sense but I checked the Asian formatting and it was not selected.

I have created a workaround by using a second duplicate field below the first. Formated with baselines and white text. The original, top, field has no baseline formatting. This will work until I can figure out what is going on.

[comment]

Can you post a sample file and a screen shot of what you're seeing?

[vsiegle]

Here is a .pdf printed directly from a single field database.

The field is formatted with baseline in red.

TestBaseline.pdf

[comment]

I meant post a sample Filemaker file, so we can see if the problem persists when the file is opened on another system.

[vsiegle]

Here's the FM7 database file to test. I ran out of time before I could upload it.

Had to recreate it. The font is Verdana 12pt. but the layering is the same in all fonts,

Baseline.zip

[comment]

It looks fine here. Have you tried actually printing this? It could be a fault with your screen rendering.

[LaRetta]

Hi vsiegle,

Your pdf looks fine. Any hanging letters (including parenthesis and some punctuation) will hang below a bit. Are you seeing more than that?

I've just never used baselines; because it always appear to crowd the text. Instead, I draw my own lines so they are min 5 px below hanging letters.

Your file also looks fine. I tested it for over an hour. The only difference is I noticed you have unclicked in File Options, Use Asian Language line-breaking. It is default on. I don't believe that would make a difference however ...

I also use Verdana and both your pdf and file appear as mine does. Sorry I couldn't provide more help.

LaRetta

[comment]

The PDF does NOT look fine here. Attached is an enlarged pic of the PDF compared to a screen shot of the file as seen on Mac. Note the "s" in "baseline" as a prime example.

[LaRetta]

Uh no, the pdf isn't fine. Comment, thank you for the enlargement; I see it now. But even zooming 400%, his file displays properly, ie, I see all of the 'S' in his file and if I copy his field to mine, it's fine there also. I can't reproduce the issue in either file.

vsiegle, I'll view this file on all our systems at work tomorrow to see if I can pinpoint it. Agreed it sounds like font or display. I'll let you know if I discover something.

Why FileMaker limits us to 400% is beyond me. And when in the world are they going to allow zoom on those calc boxes?

LaRetta

[LaRetta]

Wait a minute. I think the issue is that the red is OVER the text (where they cross the baseline) - not just that the S's are slightly chopped. At least, upon re-reading the thread start, that's what he seems to suggest.

I get that also with his file. In fact, I spent the last four hours testing this issue because I can't reproduce that either (in MY file, ie, red baseline OVER text). But then, I can't even GET color on my baselines - only dark grey. And the baselines are always UNDER the text.

If this is indeed the issue, your Mac shows it also (baselines over text where it cross the line). But then you get color. Anyway, I have a series of test comparisons on it and there are certainly differences between the way baselines acts and colors between our systems (and I wonder if between Macs and Windoz). I consider the differences quite peculiar but I've never worked with baselines before. I want a Mac so I can always SEE what Mac Users see also - it drives me crazy on these kinds of issues.

[comment]

I think it's safe to conclude that the lines being IN FRONT of the text is a "feature". However, it's much more disturbing when the lines are also positioned too high.

[vsiegle]

I tried my son's iBook and the baseline is still in front of the text.

LaRetta;

Do you mean that when you select a color in the Borders/Baseline format that it still shows up as black or gray? The selection box is not intuitive. You must choose both the popup field and the check box to act on the baseline.

I will be interested to hear how the feature holds up on your machines at work.

Addict; I agree it is a disturbing feature but I have created a workaround for this "Feature" by using a duplicate field below the actual field. The duplicate field is formatted with the baselines and white text. It's clumsy but it works.

Appreciate all your effort.

[LaRetta]

Virgil, yes, I know how to color my baselines. They simply won't color. What I meant is that I can't properly test at home because I only get black baselines. And possibly FM places COLOR baselines over and grey baselines under; I haven't even looked at baselines since vs. 6. But my graph won't color at home either (it displays all in grey).

This writing-the-line-over-hanging-letters 'Feature' is why I won't use baselines (and the fact that it places the line too tight under the text). I think text should appear as written on lines of a letter - text appearing OVER the line. And it always looks too crowded to me also.

When I copy your field and paste into my solution (repointing to my TO & field), baselines are colored and in front. But the moment I attempt to change the color, it changes only to black (color won't stick for me). Once the color is gone, the line drops behind the text (and looks better, smile).

I'll take a look on normal systems today but, if the pdf is an indication and if you are indeed talking about what I've suggested instead of only the 'S' being slightly under the line, then I think you're stuck with it. I'll let you know 1) If the 'S' is partly hidden on my work systems (that is obvious to me, after I was able to see it) and 2) if the line writes over hanging letters (as indicated by the pdf).

LaRetta

[LaRetta]

I tested the file on 8 work systems (all XP).

1) If the 'S' is partly hidden as in your pdf: No, it fully displays on all systems tested (even my home system).

2) Line writes OVER hanging letters: On all work systems, line is over hanging letters - even if baseline is set to dark grey. This is different than my home system which puts the line behind the text. But then my home system is a bit wonky (probably because I've rubbed off on it). Computers take on the personality of their User/Owners.

[vsiegle]

I looked at my database and the "S" is fully displayed. I didn't notice that it was hidden in the pdf until you pointed it out. I was more concerened baseline.

I have since tried this file on 2 other XP systems with the same result.

Is this worth reporting to Filemaker and requesting an explanation?

[Ender]

Maybe it's a sign that baselines should be black?!

[LaRetta]

I think it would be nice to color the baselines. But only if they are moved down 4 px or so. I forced myself to read a page of baselined text this morning ... it didn't feel comfortable, open, relaxing nor inviting.

I STILL believe FM listens (Steve, smile). Maybe they didn't listen well in prior versions but vs. 7 indicates they certainly are now - they have come alive!

You can make the suggestion on the baselines here at Feature Suggestions. It only takes a few seconds (and yes, I plan to also). I suppose it's like voting ... if you don't vote, don't complain about the hon-yok they put into office.

[SteveB]

Boy, you really are an optimist. They no more listen to us then government does. FMI is the only major software company that I can think of that doesn't have its own forums and moderators...its a good thing that FM Forums came along to fill in the void! FMI is interested in Fortune 500 companies, not us peons in the dungeons slaving away.

Steve

[LaRetta]

Wow, Steve!

I think that, if I felt that way about software I used, I'd change professions or software. FM may not be perfect but I still believe it's the best there is (for me anyway). Otherwise, believe me, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

I've done the Access, Approach, dBase, FoxPro, Paradox route. FM is magical and free-spirited ... unlike those other anal, boring programs (if you love them please don't jump on me).

With most programs, there is only ONE way to accomplish something ... with FM, there are always 20 (or more). And this frees our creative spirits and eliminates the possibility of boredom. And nothing is more ugly than a bored Developer. Optimist? Guilty and I will continue to be so.

FM is no longer old-school; it's new-age. 7 is just the beginning of exciting change we can expect. Just my opinion, of course.

LaRetta

[Lee Smith]

Hi Ender,

Maybe it's a sign that baselines should be black?

Then they shouldn't give us any options.

Hi Steven,

FMI is the only major software company that I can think of that doesn't have its own forums and moderators...

I can think of some others. But you are right on about This lists.

The combined knowledge on this list is so far superior to what you would find answering questions on behalf of a FMI, with the one exception being [color:"red"] Jimmy Jones . Jimmy participates on a couple of other lists that I belong to, but continues to state that he is doing it personally, and that he isn't representing FMI. Unfortunately, there is only Jimmy to go around, so he doesn't participate on every list.

HTH

Lee

[SteveB]

LaRetta, inspite of the fact that I think FMI is the 'pits' as an organization goes, and that the product is nowhere near as good as it could be with relatively little work, I still like it. I have no interest in other db languages. That doesn't mean I won't, from time to time, vent at the stupid things I would have fixed versions ago (like not having a native popup calendar). It's pretty moronic to have each user re-invent the wheel (or have to buy a plugin).

And I agree with you about the other competition. I don't however agree that FM is free-spirited and magical (I'm too old to have much whimsey left in me).

Steve

[vsiegle]

LaRetta,

I submitted a problem report here at http://www.filemaker.com/company/product/problems.html.

Everyone;

Thanks for your input on this. If I get any response I will certainly post it to the board.

I also have to say that I think FM is a great tool but like Steve I can't go as far as "free-spirited and magical". I can say that in my digital life I have known only one piece of software that deserved that praise and it was HyperCard!