Moving phone

[LaRetta]

Well, I have a way of finding weird things. I've repeated tests and it does this on all my test files as well. Please notice the little black phone in photo 1. That is layout mode and the phone should be under the status area (no kidding). When I switch to Browse, photo 2 is the result. And the bugger moves around (photo3)! How I broke it: In layout mode, scroll slightly to right then enter Browse. It only does it on this one little graphic so it's not a bug. As usual, it's just me.

I simply ADORE strange things and weirdnesses...

And this is a new system! And yes, I made sure my display was on default and I even rebooted my system. That little black phone has been around a long time - maybe it's just time to put him out to pasture! I am NEVER bored in this business!

Hey!!! I wonder if there is a way I can USE this information! Actually, I'd like to place other things on that Status Area! ROFLOL!

UPDATE: Nope, another graphic has popped on top also. This file has never crashed either! But I suppose it's time I get new graphics except ones I used with Approach in 1991. HAH!

LaRetta

Edited February 14, 2006 by Guest

[LaRetta]

Well now 5 icons jump on top of the Status Area. I hope my file isn't ruined somehow. And now I can't make it break in any other file. But it sure appears damaged to me ...

I'll set this file aside and try Maintenance on a copy of it. I KNOW it has never crashed. I watch it like a hawk to be sure I never use a file that has crashed.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Guest

[LaRetta]

Please anyone, suggestions or ideas? Has anyone had this happen? Well Maintenance didn't help. I copied the whole screen and pasted into brand new file and it does it there also!! All items on this layout are grouped and locked. Here is the same layout objects pasted into a brand new file, left grouped.

But different graphics don't do it. Now I don't know whether to trust this file or not. It has never crashed but it certainly isn't right. I can't imagine how a graphic object can overlay the status area (which isn't part of design) even if my FILE trashed out somehow!?

So it's not just my file, nor is it just the layout. These are the things I run into that make me feel insane (more than normal).

[Wim Decorte]

I've seen it happen too, only with 8.0v2, never happened with v1. I actually just solved a similar issue yesterday where in a list view, graphics would that are on a record would also show in the footer. In Browse mode, obviously not in Layout mode. And the graphics in layout mode were not anywhere close to the layout part edges. When I replaced the gaphics with other ones (png) the problem went away.

Funny thing is that it happened even with graphics in repeating fields, not just graphics on a layout.

In short: try with another graphic and see if the problem goes away.

[LaRetta]

Thank you, Wim! I just wanted to be sure I could trust continuing to design in this file. This seemingly small problem brought me to a standstill! Yes, other graphics appear fine.

Okay, time to change my graphics anyway (blush). So my layout isn't trashed and my file isn't trashed! WHEW!! Thank you so much!

L

[Wim Decorte]

If it happens again, try this:

On your desktop, right-click and choose "properties". Choose "settings" (the last tab) and at the bottom somewhere click "Advanced". Go to the "troubleshoot" tab and slide the "hardware accelleration" all the way down. Start FM again and see if it makes any difference.

Not holding my breath but it's a good test.

[LaRetta]

I just checked. Mine is set to full already. It seemed like it might be my graphics so I checked that first. But then tested it on my other system and it did it too.

Well, it was worth a try! Thank you!

L

[Wim Decorte]

Maybe try it with the acceleration set to "none"?

[LaRetta]

...and slide the "hardware accelleration" all the way down.

Down. Slide it DOWN. I was rushing a bit this morning and, like a typical User, didn't READ it right.

Changing slider to NONE and rebooting made no difference - neither on my home system or the other two with 8.0v2. It still does it just as in the last picture above on all 3 systems. It doesn't do it on any 7.0v3 system (and I don't have 8.0v1 so couldn't test that).

I'm attaching the test file in which it also does it in case anyone wants to try it (maybe to eliminate 8.0v1). These icons behave properly in all prior versions and it makes no sense that they would respond differently in 8.0v2 unless there is a (ummmmm, I hate this word ... bug) in 8.0v2. OR ... if 8.0v2 fixed a graphics rendering problem from 8.0v1; in which case, I won't be the only one affected. If anyone has this problem, I guess replacing the graphics would fix it; but I wonder if FileMaker should be made aware of the (potential) problem. And I wonder if it will affect other areas of a design (as in footers, etc).

Well, I'll be a good girl and tell FileMaker just in case ...

I would be interested if this file messes up for anyone else. Drop into layout mode, scroll to the right an inch or so, then go back to Browse...

LaRetta

test.zip

[kmhappel]

It doesn't move in front of the status bar on my Mac FileMaker8 Advanced 8v02, on my WindowsXP Professional FileMaker 8 Advanced 8v02 or my installation of FileMaker Server8

[Wim Decorte]

Yep... does the same thing on two of my XP SP2 machines with 8.0v2. But does not show it on my Terminal Server machine running Server 2003 with 8.0v1.

TS Server is a Dell PowerEdge, XP boxes are one self-built and one Acer laptop.

Two things might be happening (and perhaps at the same time)

- a bug in FM8v2 that was not in 8v1 and 7

- manifests itself only on machines with certain graphic cards/settings

(- and maybe only with certain types of graphics too).

Weird. But it'll take a lot of time & testing to get to the bottom of this...

[LaRetta]

Thank you both for helping pin this down!!

I've been testing the resolution. If I decrease to 800x(whatever), all the floating icons disappear except PART of the black phone which only displayes EXACTLY in the center of the book (where that little hole is). But hey - it changed the wonky-aspect so I thought I'd mention it.

But since I must restart after each test, it's taking some time AND I have other work to finish tonight. We all run 1024 High(32-bit). And if it depends upon hardware differences, I would have no idea what we have, but they are all Dells.

LaRetta

[kmhappel]

Well, I downloaded a new copy and it does it. : I, however, also found out why it didn't do it last time. I have a large screen (23") on both my Mac and XP machines. I had the database on maximize so that when I moved it under the status bar changing to browse simply caused the whole layout to jump to the right so that it was completely visible. This morning I tried it on my server that has a smaller screen and the whole layout would not fit and, yuppers, little-icons-in-status-baritis. I tried recovering the file on my mac but that made no difference. Try opening the file when the FileMaker application window is large enough so that the layout window can hold the entire layout with nothing hidden, so it can just pop to the right... no wierdness... think of that ? It also does not do the little-icons-in-status-baritis thing on the mac at all.

[Oldfogey]

I believe this is an XP problem or maybe XP plus FMP. I've had something vaguely similar happen. Not permanent but I don't think it was in FMP - sorry, can't remember. What I do remember is that it happened since I moved to XP (from W2K) which was also when I really started getting stuck into FMP V8.

Interestingly, my desktop shortcuts seem to have a life of their own - periodically one will move to the other side of the screen. I've always put it down to finger trouble but now I think about it, it seems to happen when my desktop is not visible. No big deal so I've never pursued it; I will now.

[kmhappel]

Thnxs oldfogy. I like your prayer. I have also noticed some similar types of instabilities. Do they occur when the application frame is maximized or when the window is too big for the XP desktop frame?

BTW LaRetta your comments all over the palce have helped me and encouraged me from time to time for some time... thanks

[comment]

I have a feeling this may have more to do with the graphics card on your computer than the exact version of software. Check the model-specific settings of your card (under the GeForce4 Ti4200 tab, judging by your screenshot) for anything weird.

[Oldfogey]

Not sure what you mean about a window being bigger than the XP frame. I am pretty sure it happens when my application window is maximised because I have never seen an icon move. I could well be walking in my sleep and doing it but I'm pretty sure it's XP or aliens.

[LaRetta]

Hi Michael,

"GeForce4 Ti4200 tab"

I have no such tab that I can find. But I DO have a Display settings tab in Control Panel (which itself contains 13 tabs). I'm unsure what to provide. Here are some of the settings listed - and these are the standard settings that came with the new Dell. It is an ATI. I haven't changed anything:

Normal size (96 DPI)

Adapter: Radeon X300 SE (0x5B60) 128 MB HyperMemory 75 MHZ

I also found an interesting tab which contains anti-aliasing information, called Direct3D

Anti-Aliasing set to Application Preference

Anisotropic set to Application Preference

Texture, Midmap and vertical synch set to 'Quality'

Performance set to middle

There is an OpenGL tab almost identical to the above except it's Anisotropic is set to 'Quality' instead of Application Preference. I am willing to begin tweaking each setting, restarting my system and opening my FM file again to test. But there are SO MANY different settings that I don't even know where to start. Using a Combination() function, it would probably calculate that I would need to perform several hundred tests (of each combination). Can you help me further narrow down what I should be looking for? I'm unable to convert your 'GeForce4' suggestion to Windows - or I'm just looking in the wrong place for it. Thank you for helping!

LaRetta

Edited February 17, 2006 by Guest

[comment]

Sorry - I was looking at Wim's screenshot by mistake (what's happenning to me lately?). That is the model of HIS graphics card. I think you should have a similar tab with the name of YOUR card. As for which parameter exactly - it could be anything, but sometimes the parameter name gives a hint.

If you have another graphics card (a different model), you could test and see if that's indeed the source of the problem.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Guest

[Wim Decorte]

That was a screenshot from my machine, not L's. But it seems we're using different graphics cards. Would have been too easy if it were the same ...

[Wim Decorte]

Interestingly, my desktop shortcuts seem to have a life of their own - periodically one will move to the other side of the screen.

Most likely that happens when you run software that changes the screen resolution (you might not notice that). Icons at the edge of the screen get moved when the screen resolution changes to something smaller than it was, and sometimes don't move back when the resolution is restored.

I use a little freeware called Iconoid to help me with this: http://www.sillysot.com/

[LaRetta]

Mine has more tabs than Wim's - weird. I've gone into every tab but find nothing that strikes me as something that might affect the display in this way except for the two tabs I mentioned. Overlay appears to be for videos playback only.

I am WAY over my head here simply because I know nothing about graphics cards (is it bigger than a bread box?) but this weekend I'll try tweaking each setting to see what happens. I see I can set it to not require reboot for new display setting to take effect ... that will save me a bit of time in trouble-shooting. I dislike things unresolved. I'll figure it out one way or the other!

And I will switch to my other monitor and test that. It's a Gateway. Maybe it will display differently. But won't it STILL be using the same graphics card? The graphics card is inside my box, right? And my other system won't run FM8. And ALL of our systems are work are identical Dells so I don't think THEY will help here. But I'll try ...

Confession: I haven't told FM yet. I wanted to provide more detailed specific answers for them first. :blush2:

Edited February 17, 2006 by Guest

[comment]

I am much too deep in Windows territory, so I'll retreat. I just wanted to shift your attention to the graphic card (it's in your computer, and changing the monitor is not likely to make a difference). But scrolling back, I see Wim had a similar(?) problem with his, so you cannot rule out a software problem either.

[kmhappel]

LaRetta,

I have now caused the same problem where plain old FM rectangles and fields appear in the status bar area by using a graphics resource layout that is much too big for the display screen, it also, like your screen has lots of objects on it. I attached a couple of screen shots

[LaRetta]

Hi Ken,

Wow. Well I admit to filling my layout space to the max allowed by our monitors but FM isn't being very forgiving about it. Thanks for the additional info. I hope to test this more thoroughly this weekend. I'm going to use my same funky graphics but try moving them inwards on the layout and see if it still causes the same problem. This might narrow it down a bit. It may just be graphics unlucky enough to be placed close to the left edge? And only on SOME systems. Very bizarre ...

Bottom line ... it didn't do this in vs. 7. And it does it now in 8.0v2. And I don't think it is normal. I'm an expert on abnormal.

LaRetta

[SteveB]

I've had the same problem, especially with layouts that have tabs on them. I believe it is a FM 8 problem...not Windows or hardware as my machine has not changed in 1.5 years. Why don't you submit it as a bug to FMI with all your screen shots?

Steve

[LaRetta]

Hi Steve,

Yep, I was hoping to have some real data to present first. But I'm now convinced of exactly what you just said ... our systems have not changed - only the FM version has changed. And this is when the problem has popped up. I was also hoping to tell them WHY it was breaking but that may be above my capability. God, I hate saying that ...

LaRetta

[kmhappel]

My screen shots were made with current v8.02 stuff. the file is less than a month old. I also got it to work with a brand new file and a brand new set of rectangles, so I don't think it has anything to do with corruption.

By the way we share a long term relationship with the abnormal :P

[LaRetta]

RE: Dancing phone - Well, I've run tests til the cows come home and I can find no differences between trying each one of my settings (changing one then restarting). So if it is a COMBINATION of them, someone else will have to find it. There were 65 graphics card settings to test.

But things mentioned on this thread (and in other threads) keep pointing to two issues: 1) Where rendering happens within the layer (as interpreted by the OS) and the new tabs feature. Here is a shot (ButtonText) of alignment problem in a file which has NEVER used tabs (but is 8.0v2). If anyone else experiences the slide-to-the-right issue (I've been getting it a lot when I copy a button and paste elsewhere), it can be solved by selecting the offensive item and Arrange > Send To Back. I've repeated the 'fix' over 20 times today on various copied layout labels. Hmmm, copy/paste affects stacking order on the layout and that is when these breaks are most obvious.

I've been considering how Tabs work but have only played briefly with them in test files. But fields placed within a tab share the SAME SPACE on the layout but just in different layers (dimensions), right? I think these layers are getting 'confused' in more ways than the dancing phone or sliding alignments. For instance, my Object Size box won't always register lines if placed on a Header/Footer. I can select/de-select and reselect, makes no difference. I must move it off the line before the size is recognized. The LineBreaks shot is a copy of the line from first photo (LineWorks), pasted into new test file. I moved it around a lot to try to get FM to finally recognize it existed. Jumping to Browse and back and reselecting didn't help.

Well, I've gathered enough to report my findings but I'm no closer to answers than before. I just though you all might like to know you're not nuts if it happens to you. :wink2: