Live editing

[DonH]

It appears to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that the biggest problem with FM is the inability to seperate the interface from the data.

I would like to update the layouts without having to take the whole application off line. However, FM won't let me do this.

Is there anyway to do a "hot swap" of layouts without having to swap out the entire db?

[LiveOak]

You can certainly edit layouts without taking FileMaker files "off-line". The only limitation is that you can't change the layout order. You can either copy and paste FM layouts from another modified file or (on the Mac) drag layouts to the desktop (unlock all objects, select all, then drag to desktop) and then drag the clipping back to a layout in another file. Field names will all connect up as long as they exist and match the file you are pasting into.

Unfortunately, you must do this one layout at a time.

-bd

[DonH]

Interesting. If I open FM and then try to open the live file, I get the error that the file is in use and cannot be opened. So I can't paste anything to it.

But how do I copy a layout? I looked and all I can do is duplicate it within the db. I don't see anyway of moving it to another db.

[DonH]

Oh, and also, I need to edit scripts live too. Basically I need to edit EVERYTHING live

[-Queue-]

If the file is in use and cannot be opened, then you have it set to Single-User and someone already has it open. When you can open it, make sure Sharing is set to Multi-User and none of the scripts change that setting.

To copy a layout, Select All and Edit->Copy (or whatever the shortcuts are for your OS), move to another layout (or db) and Paste. If you paste fields that don't exist in the current db, you'll need to select and change them to something that does exist or delete them completely from the layout.

[DonH]

LOL That means I have to shut down FM Server to get to them. Which is what I want to avoid. Guess not tho.

Since it is in use 24/7 I am given a window of 2 hours to do any work on it. 6am to 8am. Yawn.

'Twould be nice to be able to do it live. Oh well.

[Fitch]

I think I see what's going on... Don, you need to open the served files from another machine as a guest. Then you'll be able to go to layout mode and copy/edit layouts. Also scripts. And in newer versions of FileMaker, fields as well, although you do have to be the only user for that. One thing you won't be able to modify is access privileges.

[-Queue-]

Ah, but you only need do this once. And you don't need to shutdown the server, just use the remote administrator to close the files, then open them yourself manually, change the Sharing status, close them, and then use the remote admin to open them again. Send a message to the user that you're closing the files at lunch or break or something. It shouldn't take but a few minutes to make the change, and then you'll be able to change everything except layout order and field definitions while users are connected.

[Fitch]

Q, I think he's trying to open the files directly while they're being hosted, instead of as a guest -- that's why the "file in use" message. See my last post.

Don, FYI it's not a good idea to run FileMaker Server and FileMaker Pro on the same machine at the same time.

[-Queue-]

Hmm. Well if I try to open Multi-User files directly that are being hosted by FM Server, it thinks for a while and then opens them from the server. I would only get that error message (I would think) when the files are Single-User.

So...what am I missing here?

[DonH]

If I try to do it remotely I don't get the PASSWORD box so they just open as they would if I was using them.

Looks like the easist way is to just do what I'm doing. Make and test the mods on a copy then at 6am shut the server down, make the changes, test them, and then start it back up again.

[-Queue-]

Huh? You only shut them down remotely, open them manually from where they live (hold down Shift to enter a password), make your Sharing changes, close them, then use remote admin to open them on the server again. You should then be able to open FileMaker, select File->Open, click Hosts, select your server and the file you want to open. Again, hold down Shift to enter a password when they open.

[DonH]

Once again, I can not shut down the application except for 2 hours in the morning. And even then, I can't shut down any part of it remotely. I have to go to the server, open the CLI, type in FMSERVER stop. Then I can manually open them in the proper order.

Probably what is happening is that the scripts the author put on them lock out being able to stop the scripts. So I had to find a work around on that. He had decided that there would never be a need to edit his work.

[DonH]

Okay, let's go back to this one. So far I have found the manuals to be wrong. First off the manual says to run dbs on FMS they have to be in multi-user. This is not true because I just changed them to multi-user and they were functioning before I did it.

Now, I see all this stuff about remote admin, but how? The book says to just open FMP and go to FILE -> Administer. When I go to FILE, I don't see an ADMINISTER anywhere.

However, Queue, you are promoted above Anatoli. You said something in this thread that opened my eyes once the light clicked. I was trying to open the files directly ie FILE->OPEN select the server folder file. You said tho, "select File->Open, click Hosts" CLICK HOSTS! AH HA! So I went in and clicked hosts and opened it that way and suddenly I could do editing.

Thank you

[-Queue-]

Yay! I'm glad you finally got that part figured out.

Regarding the remote admin, I can't quite recall from my FileMaker 4 days, but I believe if you click hosts and then select 'FMServer', you can then access it after entering a password. You may need to specify the server's IP, if there is more than one 'side' to your network. You may also need to enable the Server Administration plug-in via Edit->Preferences->Application->Plug-Ins.

Someone else might have more accurate steps to follow, as I'm basing mine on FM 5.5.

I believe FMS can host single-user files, but they will only be accessible by one user at a time, as they would on a client.

Keep up the good work. You're on your way!

[Anatoli]

DonH said:

However, Queue, you are promoted above Anatoli. You said something in this thread that opened my eyes once the light clicked. I was trying to open the files directly ie FILE->OPEN select the server folder file. You said tho, "select File->Open, click Hosts" CLICK HOSTS! AH HA! So I went in and clicked hosts and opened it that way and suddenly I could do editing.

Thank you

I was trying to lead you there week ago, but you wouldn't listen. A week! IMHO that is also the full reason for your data losses. Didn't I mention manuals?

[DonH]

Sorry Anatoli, you never said anything about it. "Leading" is the wrong way to go when you are trying to offer "help". You can not assume anything you must spell everything out.

But the MANUALS don't say anything about this either. Matter of fact the MANUALS just say to open the file by FILE -> OPEN select the file.

Now, you can redeem yourself by explaining how to do remote server admin. The MANUAL says, and I quote, "To access the administrative functions choose FILE, ADMINISTER."

Okay, I select FILE and there is no ADMINSTER anywhere in the list. So much for the manuals.

[Fitch]

You're looking at the FM Server manual. The Administer function is something you do from the server. Remote admin works differently.

[DonH]

No, actually I'm looking at the FMP manual. Maybe I should look at the FMS manual, if I can find it. Guy who set all this up tended to have sticky fingers too.