Will my db work full functionally on the web

[snekkis]

I have FM Dev. 6 and have made a solution which my customer would like to use on the web instead. I have tried share the db using the web companion, but there is lot of bugs when I open the db. I have read in the manual that there is a issue about amount of script step per buttons and foremost button specified graphics( which I have lot of). And then there is the 10 user limitation in the web companion that must be found a solution for. I guess I have to move into FM server or so, but I would like to know if I for sure I can make the db and its scripts and functions available for the user in its existing form on the web?

Thanks,

Snekkis

[rivet]

1. FM server does not publish to the web. You have to use the client package. There us an unlimited version that get you past the 10 user limit.

- this can be scalled depending on your traffic. You would buy the server package and then multipule client packages on multiple machines.

master db files hosted on server -> FMPClient running db files from server and serving html pages.

2. The best way to publish your solutions is to build your own pages with CDML instead of the WebCompanion's Instant Web Publishing.

[Anatoli]

You can connect the web directly to FM through WebCompanion and Instant Web Publishing. That is good for simple flat database with stamp collection.

Or you can try WebCompanion and Custom Web Publishing, which is 10 -- 100 times more powerful. That is the HTML/CDML combination.

Or you can try Lasso, which is fully featured middleware for practically any database system, from FM and MySQL to Oracle.

For tests up to 10 visitors IP you can use standard FM.

For full size serving you will need FM Unlimited.

HTH

[LiveOak]

I will probably get some commentary on this, but I think the general answer is no or not without a lot of effort. The main difference between FM to FM access and Brower to FM access is that the first is "session" based and the second is "transaction" based.

What does this mean. When multiple users access a FM host from FM, the host "knows" who they are. Each guest has their own globals, found set, sort order, etc. Multi-step operations can depend upon this fact. When FM is accessed via the web, it is transaction based. There is no notion of "user", except the one you explicitly create with cookies, etc. Except for fairly simple systems, this forces a separate paradigm for web access. You may be able to duplicate all the functionality of your current files, but it won't look the same as FM to FM access.

Remember, that for access by a few users, you can still have FM to FM access remotely using the internet.

-bd

[snekkis]

OK, then, if I try to sort this one. In my solution, every new user has his/her own record with a ton of fields and charts which make them active with the solutions functions. It was the best brainstorm I could come up with at that time, but that is what I'm going to stick with. So, found set and sort order I don't need, but I need global container fields, which I saw flipped out in the web comp>sharing test I made.

So, ergo what then? I need the unlimited version which you can give free clients to for accessing FM host? And they will only access it the way I made the db?

Thanks,

Snekkis

[Anatoli]

RE: I need the unlimited version which you can give free clients to for accessing FM host?

That is completely of track.

You can buy to everyone FM 5-6 client to access your solution running on FM server, which can be accessed, from remote IP.

Or you can install Unlimited and build custom pages for web publishing. With browser access you need to rework everything in HTML/CDML, period.

[snekkis]

Yes, I'm of track. Thats why I try to get rid of the confusion. And I actually did not conclude with a question (see the question mark?). It is a way of expression.

[cmartin]

Set up one FM client running FM Unlimited. This client will need a 24/7 internet connection and static IP. Then remote users can access web solution through that IP address and web browser, they would not need FM installed at all.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Hi all,

Consider me as a Newbie here.

I'm now considering the Web issue within FileMaker as the "MustHave" knowledge. So here is the first post following this discussion that totally suits my actual needs.

You may be able to duplicate all the functionality of your current files, but it won't look the same as FM to FM access.

So I spent some times designing the Internet Interface of my solution, knowing that Internet "users" won't access the files the same way as my vendors.

Does Live Oak answer means I just have to forget about my FM Internet Access Interface and start a new one using some "Design Software" and CDML Tags (let keep Lasso apart for the moment) ?

[cjaeger]

Does Live Oak answer means I just have to forget about my FM Internet Access Interface and start a new one using some "Design Software" and CDML Tags (let keep Lasso apart for the moment) ?

That's just about it. You will be designing web forms with some specific FileMaker tags. Better get a good editor and dive into javascript.

But the main difference is - as LiveOak has nicely pointed out, a completely different way of handling users and sessions. You will have to rework most of your scripts, as another user may access the same record in the meantime. You will want to do extensive error checking in javascript before any data is sent to the server, etc.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Christian,

Thanks for the quick answer....

My intention is to share the Db on the Web so that :

- Customers get their Order TRacking

- Supplier give their Order Confirmation

- Prospects browse the catalog and get some pricing.

One silly additional question.

When the db would be set to be used over the Web by some users, is there any logic to totally get rid of any FileMaker "Classic" even for my internal use.

Everybody on Internet board !!

[cjaeger]

The easiest part is the Prospects one. Only browsing, not much entry (apart from Name & Address). The other 2 are more complex since you put sensitive information in the open.

I would start with the catalog first.

as to your silly question, I don't quite understand.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Yes the Catalog is like the "Stamp Catalog" example mentionned by Anatoli former in this thread.

I agree this is the easiest part.

The silly question...Hmm...It may be because of my total ignorance about this part of FM Feature.

I was just wondering if I would gain to create a total WEB solution (not for tomorrow though ), therefore throwing my newly created FM 5.5 Files.

Is it the way some developpers are working, acting more as a Web developper than a database developper.

My vendors would therefore work on a Online db instead of a networked db. Is it clearer or should I get some more sleep ?. Aaargh

[cjaeger]

sleep - good idea.

If you do web only, don't use FileMaker. Use PHP/MySQL instead.

Or have a look at this new Dutch product, decribed in www.filemakermagazine.com. looks like a web-only FileMaker substitute.

I do combine FileMaker & Web, but since I am not proficient in CDML, I rather use data ported to MySQL for the web & FileMaker for internal use. This way, I only have the information out there that is needed, doing some import/export to sync with FileMaker. So even if someone breaks into the database, he will find only some bits of info, not the entire database. The drawback is that info is not up-to-the minute.

I have seen some databases, where I could hack into to get every detail of their products & customer lists, just because - focussing on CDML - they left FileMaker xml access open.

I like the idea of handing out the customer FileMaker Runtimes which download the data or submitting it via xml, so only the current days work is accessible on the web. You could implement this with clever database design also, but what if the customer wants a complete history online?

enough for today. let's get some sleep.

[Anatoli]

RE: I have seen some databases, where I could hack into to get every detail of their products & customer lists, just because - focussing on CDML - they left FileMaker xml access open.

The whole CDML/XML stuff is not realy protected much. Just with the security databases -- or completely open.

BTW -- Lasso works with FM and MySQL and have much better security, than CDML.

[Keith M. Davie]

Yawn, oh hi all.

Lolling around enjoying life. Quite healthy. I haven't said anything for a while. But I still like to read the threads and watch the struggle. And hey, I soon won't even be in the top ten in contributors, so let's add one.

As some observers know I am a firm advocate of the intelligent use of protected ScriptMaker scripts on the web to solve really tough problems. Data security is still an issue with FMPro solutions, especially those sites which are open to "all users", witness, "I have seen some databases, where I could hack into to get every detail of their products & customer lists, just because - focussing on CDML - they left FileMaker xml access open."

How does one remove sensitive data from the web-enabled db file? Can't be done with portals or inlineactions. Just can't!

It can be done with ScriptMaker. I demonstrated that on the web with a site just for developers (no longer there). Yeah the site was still hackable, but the sensitive data was not there. It had been completely removed from the web enabled db files by an intelligently written ScriptMaker script which was designed such that if a ScriptMaker event failure (or several event failures) occurred because of a near-simulatneaous request(s), the client(s) were properly notified. And that solution did work. No one got to the removed data.

So I just thought I'd come back to remind everyone that it is the poor workman who blames the tool.

Develop in peace for peace.

[Rangoon]

Greetings Old Hand,

RE: So I just thought I'd come back to remind everyone that it is the poor workman who blames the tool.

How right you are!

RE: Elvis has left the building.

Elvis is dead and I don't feel so good myself!

Good to see your post Old Hand, you've been missed.

hj

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Woah !

My first post on this Topic and the great Keith is coming back here. Honored....

and thanks for pointing it out.

1.I like Christian's approach of the problem....which is reasonable

2.I'm convinced of Anatoli's suggestion about using Lasso.

3. I keep Keith advices about scripts as a "Must know" for my future investigations.

Now, sorry if this sounds redundant with my post in the "Making a Living" Forum, but I just wanted to remember that I'm currently doing the Big Jump into the "FileMaker Developper Community".

It would be really effective in September as I'm very close to an agreement for the Sale of my current company.

One condition of this agreement is that I'd be keeping the "maintenance and developpement" of the FileMaker solution I developped within the years.

The Main new developpement is the "Online Stuff".

So my first customer would be my own "old" company...At least I'd know the business by heart !

But I don't even know from where to start with this FM Feature. I'm getting afraid right now.

Lasso, My SQL, CDML, all is so new for me that I'm afraid about "burning out some good steps" ...

I just ordered a few reference books about CDML, File Maker and Web,...

I'd surely get experienced browsing this Forum too. But if it sounds "easy" to learn FileMaker, it sounds terribly complicated when it comes to FM Web developpement.

Any clue or advice highly appreciated...

Thanks again.

[Leb i Sol]

Hey UGO!

I see have taken a step toward www...nice

"I just ordered a few reference books about CDML"

- most of this stuff can be seen/learned from CDML reference DBs that are free to download from FileMaker.com

I would suggest to start out with CDML and HTML combo...learn few tags and then migrate to Lasso. MySQL is a DB in itself that can be discussed and used without ever starting FM so do not worry about it too much (unless u really have to)

Good Luck and happy development!

[Unable]

I like to recommend the 4 or 5 examples on the Sample Files forum as a learning tool. I've benefitted from them.