Im about to give up on learning FM

[Totes]

Ok, I hate to sound like a total dummy, but I just don’t get it.

I have a db with around 10 layouts.

I saved a copy and I saved a clone so I could work safely with the data.

I opened up the clone, and I selected the import file option…on the left side (source) I see all the layouts, however on the right (Target) all I have available is the first layout all the others are grayed out.

And of course only the data in the first layout (because that is all I can select as the target) gets the data inserted…all the other layouts have no data in the fields when I open up the clone after attempting to move the data over.

I have pushed and poked every button I can find, I have searched online and read what I can find in my book but nothing works.

What the heck is wrong?

Is there a whitepaper on importing?

Sorry for such a dumb question, but I am about to give up on FM.

Thanks,

James

Edited February 13, 2007 by Guest

[Ender]

Each table must be imported in a separate Import. Switch to the destination layout prior to performing the Import. Once you're in the Import dialog, choose the source table from the pull down menu.

[Totes]

Hi Ender,

Thanks for your time...I have tried that however, the targets are still all greyed out? All I can select in the target side is the first layout

I get the option to create another table called xxxx(2) on the target side but thats it (and I can select "Define Database).

Here is a shot after I open the second layout (services) and try to move data to the target but all I can select is the first layout "Victim".

Link

Thanks

Edited February 13, 2007 by Guest

[IdealData]

Layouts and Tables.

The general structure of a FMP file (for the purposes of this question) is:

FILE may contain many TABLES

Each TABLE may contain many LAYOUTS

I think you have LAYOUTS and TABLES mixed up.

When you specify the SOURCE you are specifying the SOURCE TABLE. The TARGET TABLE is based on the currently selected LAYOUT.

So , if you had no layouts defined for a table you wouldn't be able to define an import routine as you can't get access to the table through a layout.

[Totes]

IdealData,

Thank you, I sort of understand what you are explaining.

I guess the basic question I need to ask is "what should I do to correct this"?

Thank you,

James

[Ender]

As I said before, switch to the destination layout prior to performing the Import. The layout's table will be the destination in the Import dialog.

[Totes]

Ender,

I may not be reading your post correctly so hang with a newbie if you will.

Here are the steps I follow...

1. I physically open the first layout #1 on the clone, and then select the import option to get data from my copy.

On the source side layout #1 is available, and on the target side layout #1 is available (the only one available as shown in the link).

All is well, until... I physically open layout #2 on the clone and select import from the copy...on the source side I select the #2 layout, however I cant select the #2 layout on the target side because it is still grayed out.

No matter which layout I physically open, the selection on the source side is there but only the first layout is available on the target side.

On this link image Link I have the sercices layout opened on my clone and selected the import option, as you can see on the source the services layout is there but on the target everything is still grayed out, including the services layout.

What have I done wrong?

Thanks,

James

Edited February 13, 2007 by Guest

[Ender]

Perhaps your layouts are all based on the same table occurrence.

IdealData is right, it would help if you used the right terms (layout, table, and table occurrence). The correct terms make it easier to communicate.

[Totes]

Thanks for the assistance...I just going to call it quits with FM.

Take care.

[mr_vodka]

Jim,

As an Airborne Ranger, I would not have expected quitting from you. Learning something that is unfamiliar to anyone is not easy and for a complete novice, it will take time and patience.

Try to work through some of the tutorial files on FM's website to get the basic concepts down. Also there are videos out there; some which are free and others that are not, as well as books/articles, and of course this forum that will help you along the way.

At some point, we were all novices, as were you prior to your training at Ranger and Airborne School.

[Totes]

Mr. V.

I really do not know what to say…you make a valid point.

You have also helped me many times.

The problem I have is on something like this there is no documentation showing problems that may arise. I have over $300 worth of books and they all basically say them same cookie cutter info about importing data…they tell you how to do it, but nothing about what to do if you have a problem.

In truth this forum has provided more info than any of the books I have purchased.

I have nothing against FM I have had fun attempting to learn it, but when you get down to something which seems so simple (as importing data) and there is a snag, and I search and search every page I have and cant find a fix (I honestly spent 4 days reading everything I can find about importing data) it just gets me to the point of not wanting to mess with it.

I still do not know why this import will not work other than a TO problem?

Thanks again.

[Lee Smith]

Mr Vodka took the words out of my mouth earlier, maybe I can take some out of his mouth now.

Why not post copies of these files. One of us can then walk you through the process using your own files.

HTH

Lee

[Totes]

Let me strip out some of the useless graphics etc. and Ill try to post something tonight when I get home from work.

Be gentle its my first db

Thanks,

James

[Lee Smith]

Excellent.

We don't comment on look and feel unless asked, and as far as we know, the files are a work in process.

A copy of the files striped of everything in the way of confidential nature is not a problem, and if you need to subsitute xxx for data like phone numbers or address, etc. please do so. We can usually get by with a few examples of the data, so delete as many records as necessary.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.

Lee

[Genx]

I honestly spent 4 days reading everything I can find about importing data

Lol 4 days and you're ready to give up? I was stuck on things longer than that as a novice, LOL, let's just say i could tell you some stories.

[mr_vodka]

Mr Vodka took the words out of my mouth earlier, maybe I can take some out of his mouth now.

Hey you stay away from my mouth Lee! LOL.

:laugh:

[Totes]

Ok, here is the db that I have had the problems with. This is a db that we have at work for victims of domestic abuse (I am now a Police Officer).

I have removed some of the useless graphics and a couple of the layouts that were still under construction and victim/offender data etc.

This is actually the clone part that I was attempting to import the data into, I assume that someone will be able to look at the relationships etc. on this clone to locate my problem.

Well here it is…

TheMess.zip

Once again thanks to everyone who has helped to this point.

James

[Stuart Taylor]

All of your layout are for the "Victim" Table

You need a layout for the other tables in order to import them.

[Totes]

Hi Stuart,

Sorry it took so long to reply, but I just could not get logged in.

So, do I need to duplicate the layout and have it "Show Records" from itself, and move the data to the dupe layout?

Thanks

Edited February 14, 2007 by Guest

[Stuart Taylor]

Hi James,

I can see why you are having problems with FM, but these issus that you are having are very easily resolved, but will take a change of approach on your part. (not a major one).

1. In layout mode: go to Layout > Layout Setup...

You will see on all 3 layouts the infomation displayed is a record from the "Victim" table.

The "Victim" Table is the main table and linked to the "Offender" Table and "Incident" Table. These are linked via "Offender_ID".

Think of a field from the "Offender" Table on the "Victim" Layout as looking through a window into the offender table.

Create a new layout then on "Show Records From:" choose "Incident" or "Offender" and then put fields from those tables on the layout.

Hope this helps

[mr_vodka]

Jim,

A layout represents record for a specific table occurence. If you want to import records into a certain table, then as the others have said, you need perform the import via a layout that represents the talbe you want to import into.

As Stuart has pointed out, currently all of your layouts are based off of the 'Victims' table. So when you are trying to import the records for 'Offenders' via your layout 2, you are actually still trying to import it into the 'Victims' table because your layout 2 is a layout for 'Victims'. You can change the table / table occurence for a layout by going to Layout Setup in the menu.

Okay...

That being said, I am in the middle of modifying your file to what I think may be more normalized data. For example, technically I think that the Victims and Offender could be in one table called 'People' and then when creating a new incident, you can designate a victim and an offender.

The reason for this is because one day an offender can turn into a victim, as well as numerous incidents regarding the same two people; especially in cases on domestic violence. Why should you have to retype in all the same data. Also in your value lists, you have numerous Yes/No. You do not need all of these. You just need one and have the different fields just reference that value list name. Anyway, I will try to put together a demo for you.

In the meantime, take a look at some of these free webinars on the FM website.

[mr_vodka]

Sorry Stuart,

I didnt see your post... I was sidetracked while in the middle of replying. lol.

[Stuart Taylor]

point... i would work from "Incident" outwards

An incident is what you would respond to and 1 "Incident" can have multiple victims or/and offenders.

[Totes]

All Very Good Points, I never thought about.

So can I use a single yes/no Value List for all my yes/no fields in the entire db? If so Im gonna kick myself...

Edited February 14, 2007 by Guest

[Stuart Taylor]

I would start by tackling the issue at hand first ... database structure

but...

you could define your yes/nos as radio buttons or checkboxes.

[Stuart Taylor]

oh and you only need one yes/no value list...

don't kick yourself too hard else you will confuse your database structure further as you will be the victim and offender in that incident.

[mr_vodka]

Jim,

I have modified your file. It isnt exactly pretty but it serves it purpose. Take a look at it and use it as a learning tool.

BTW, Anytime you have field1, field2, field3... etc, that is a good indication that you may want to create a seperate related table.

Also as my previous post pointed out, it may make more sense to combine those that are the victims and the offenders because a lot of the data is repetitive and also one day a victim can turn into an offender, so i dont think it is wise to label them at the personal level but rather label them at the incident level.

DVU_modified.zip

[Totes]

Thanks Mr. V (and to everyone).

Many good points were brought up, that I had never thought of, and the re-worked db will give me something to work on and learn from.

Thanks for taking the time with a newbie.

JH

[durian]

My recommendation on learning any program - and databases more than most - is to start off dipping a big toe. To try to get too serious too quickly can cause loads of frustration.

James, why don't you back up a few steps and try a simple one-table database first - maybe id, name and address. Get the feel of what is meant by a table and what by a layout in Filemaker. Try an import and export, that sort of thing.

Then add a table that's related to the first - let's say it's phone numbers for the names (since there can be one or many it's a logical thing to have in a related table) - related by the 'id', then play with that a bit. I think the key is 'play'. If you're trying to do a real project on your first time out with FMPro -- and that's what it sounds like you're trying to do -- you'll hate it.

Filemaker is quirky, and even if you have database experience you'll need to get used to the FMPro way of doing things.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Guest