[Off] Does this sound fishy to you?

[Vaughan]

Something completely unrelated to FMP: I'm selling a little sailing boat designed for kids 10 to 14 years of age. It's an Australian design not sailed anywhere else in the world. It's over 10 years old, nice condition but not great. I'm asking AUS$1,700.

I'm getting interest from this guy with a Yahoo account. Quite bad grammar and spelling. After a couple of mail exchanges it turns out he's from the UK and wants to buy the boat sight-unseen.

I'm not normally a suspicious person but I ask myself, why?

The last message I got from his was this (sic)

Thanks for your response,i wish to inform you that i just contacted my patner in usa who is owning me $6,000 usd,and his willing to pay me via international money order,already told him about you,that he would have to send the payment ditrectly to you,which he has agreed to do as soon as your provide me with the name your want on it also your address,so that as soon as you recieve it,you cash it then deduct your $1700 usd and

then send the remainies ($4300 usd) via wire transfer to my shipper who would be comming down to your location to pick up the boat.Please note that am puting my trust on you,so assure me that as soon as your recive the payment you will send my balance back to my shipper immediately,so that he can pick up my boat from your location. So kindly get back at me with the name you want on the international money order also your

address and phone number,so that i can tell my patner to send payment to you immediatley. Waitng for your response.

So here he offers me US$1,700* and wants to pay to ship it to the UK which would probably be close to the cost of the boat itself.

So it's gotta be some kind of con, right, but what? A variation of the Nigerian bank account thing? I'm keen to learn how the criminal mind works.

* I figure I'd better decide to take the offer really soon, before the US$ sinks to below the AUS$! LOL

[Oldfogey]

Vaughan, The bloke sounds quite genuine to me. Naturally he will need some kind of sign of good faith from you - such as a pre-payment of part of the extra $4,300.

I can make you a much better offer. No cash but I'll swap a toll gate on the Harbour Bridge for your boat. Nice income stream guaranteed.

[aldipalo]

Well, two thoughts that immediately come to mind. (See my note below! )

How would the exchange rate work if the buyer got the $6k from the American guy? Does he think he makes out better $6K US to $ whatever Aus then $AUS to British Pound?

Second, You should always go with your gut. Tell him you are uncomfortable with that arrangement and would prefer to deal directly with him. Ask for a Good Faith Deposit and tell him you'll wait the week or two until all the transfers are made. You take the 1,700 and let him send the money directly to the shipper.

Now you have your $$$$ and are out of any possible scam.

[Vaughan]

"Vaughan, The bloke sounds quite genuine to me. Naturally he will need some kind of sign of good faith from you - such as a pre-payment of part of the extra $4,300."

Ahh, so that's what you reckon will happen... and I don't need a toll gate on the Bridge, I've already got one from the Cross City Tunnel*.

*The Cross City Tunnel has no toll booths, it's cashless. It also caused a huge controversy because the private consortium of builders managed to get a clause in the contract to force the local councils to narrow all the public roads to force people to use the tunnel. And then the people stayed away in droves and the company went bust.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Guest

[Vaughan]

"Second, You should always go with your gut."

If it was a multi-million dollar yacht I'd expect calls from the UK and USA. But this is a kids boat, and it's in Australia which is a hell of a long way from the UK. I mean, it's going to have to be packed into a 20 foot container* to go anywhere overseas! I'd imaging packing and shipping will go close to doubling the cost of the boat. And for that money the buyer could get a NEW boat locally.

*Maybe that's the trick: other stuff gets packed into the container as well as the boat... seriously.

[Lee Smith]

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but my wife was selling some drapes, and someone, not unlike you have describe, responded. They were going to pay more than the asking price (for shipping), and wanted to send a Cashier Check. They were not in the US, so it started to sound funny to us. We told them to draw the funds on a California Bank, and we would do it.

Guess what, the deal went a way. This is a scam, what they will do is to send you a large Cashier Check, drawn on a non existent bank, and ask for you to send them the difference in a Wire, or Cashier Check.

Tell them to wire cash on a bank such as Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase, etc. and see how fast they fade away.

Now, about your boat. Don't you think that a real buyer would ask for a picture or something?

Lee

Edited November 20, 2007 by Guest

[Vaughan]

Lee

Thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds like mine.

Yes they did ask for photos etc, but the way they did it sounded very odd as though it was automated and designed to apply to as broad a range of items as possible.

Interesting, I've had *another* potential buyer just this morning:

hi,

am brian, i saw you advert on the Sailing Boats you have for sale, i will like to let you know that am really intrested in buying it, so i ll want you to get back to me with the following details about the pet, i will need the to know the last offering price,the pics if there are more avilable and the location it is, your promt response shall be needed immedialty as i ll be looking forward to hearing from you

brian

It's pretty sad that these kind of things happen.

[AudioFreak]

I would honesly stay away from it myself. It sounds like a similiar scam that goes around recording studios. See here

I hope the guy is in good faith but you really should be careful.

Michael

[Vaughan]

Early on in the saga I got a phone number out of the guy:

Thanks for your mail,well i wish to inform you that i stay in the uk,and i really want your boat here is my phone number so that se can discuss +447031819723

If somebody in the UK would like to invest a bit of their time and money phoning Andrew and let me know what happens... :)

[Genx]

Lol, maybe he's money laundering.

[David Jondreau]

Scam, scam, scam. Both of them.

[Ocean West]

Yes it is a SCAM, I read this somewhere... BTW I have been burned by a Nigerian scam, (i can laugh about it now) i was selling a computer old B&W G3 Mac, on craigs list. the guy wanted to pay for it and it's shipping everything and sent the funds to an escrow account, thru some legitimate company. I went to the vendor and signed up and NEVER seen funds added, I dropped the computer off at my local shipper and they boxed it up and charged it to HIS FedEx Account.

I was too busy moving to pay too much attention. But long story short, the FedEx account was legit but not the part it was shipping to (scam) the funds being sent to me to the escrow account (bogus) Never saw a dime. Called FedEx the day AFTER it shipped, when I had a moment. Downside they were TOO efficient it was almost to destination. No way to get it back unless i wanted to fork over $1500.

I did tell them to destroy it at customs or donate it to a school.

Oh well live and learn....

Food for thought...

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html

Edited November 21, 2007 by Guest

[Inky Phil]

Hi Vaughan

I dialled that number and it was intercepted by the following warning message from Orange "This message won't cost you anything but dialling the number that you have done might cost you more than you expect....".

At that point I disconnected but I think the Orange message says it all eh?

Phil

[IdealData]

This is no scam...

It is, in fact, a genuine but desparate attempt to get illegal immigrants into the UK. $1700 for the boat is cheap, even with delivery charges to add, I have no doubt you could squeeze at least 20 (small) Nigerians into it, hoist sail and merely dock at Southampton in the full glorious sunshine of the English winter.

If shipping cost were also $1700 then that makes $170 per Nigerian - around 68 quid, which of course they would be re-imbursed by state hand outs immediately they announce thay can't speak or write a word of English. An interpreter would be provided at around 50 quid per hour who makes a fortune in the next 3 days filling out forms for them.

In the mean time they all get shipped to a completely refurbished council flat with brand new fixtures and fittings, immediately jumping the housing queue that some of the indigenous population have patiently waited on for years.

Soon of course they all wise up on how to break the law, get caught and then get a pitifully short sentence due the lack of accommodation at Her Magesty's pleasure.

Think you can put a hole in the boat first Vaughan?

[Vaughan]

Phil, you're a gentleman. Thanks for doing that.

And the Orange message is spooky.

Thanks to all for your help and advice. :)

[ricardito]

you get the check, you can cash it because it's a cashiers check and the bank doesn't question it, you get the 6g's, send them their money, the bank later gets the check returned and wants it's money back from you!

this is a well known scam, few years ago someone tried this on my dad, i did some research and sure enough, it's a common ploy they use.

[aldipalo]

This is why this forum is so great. Not only do we get expert advice on FileMaker, but, we can also pull from the experiences of a World Wide audience.

[Tori Mitchell]

What's worse is that if this *isn't* one of the scams that have been listed above, it's straight out money laundering. I've seen dozens of things like this over the years with people looking to get a too-good-to-be-true deal on something. Heck, some times, you'll see sites that will be willing to just mail you checks that you cash and then take a 'commission' out of. Given the amount of the transaction, it's almost a given that it'd raise the eyebrows of someone if they looked... but it's too small so they won't.

[Tori Mitchell]

What's worse is that if this *isn't* one of the scams that have been listed above, it's straight out money laundering. I've seen dozens of things like this over the years with people looking to get a too-good-to-be-true deal on something. Heck, some times, you'll see sites that will be willing to just mail you checks that you cash and then take a 'commission' out of. Given the amount of the transaction, it's almost a given that it'd raise the eyebrows of someone if they looked... but it's too small so they won't.

[Aaron Briggs]

Hi, For a start I wouldn't trust anyone who cannot spell. His English is bad and the grammar is worse. I suspect he isn't English. I think the scam works like this...you pay in the cheque or money transfer and then send him the 'balance', however, a little bit later the bank phones you up and says the cheque is no good. you're out the balance and more than likely the boat. I've come across this with other sales or rental agreements. Money orders usually take up to 20 days or so to clear, and then these sort never do. Anyway, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole... All the best.

Having just read the other comments I agree with IdeaData, shame it is so near to the truth...

Edited December 8, 2007 by Guest

[grawlster]

Vaughan I must agree with everyone that says this is a scam. Its the oldest of the classic Nigerian 419 scam type. The promise to buy, alter the terms of payment and claim they have overpaid you, their tender then bounces more than goodyear and you have paid them back a small "overpayment" and are left our of pocket and without your goods. Dont waste your time replying to the person.

[Tony O]

Whoo! Scam, scam scam. Probably the same exact guy who wanted to buy one of our old presses on eBay .Very very similar, down to the misspellings. Bastards.

[Vaughan]

Thanks to all who responded. Good advice indeed.