FileMaker Previews Bento, The Stylish Personal Database for Leopard

[Søren Dyhr]

Also, wouldn't it be nice to have some of these features in FileMaker - direct links to AddressBook and iCal data and better interface design tools?

We have actually had it around for ages, although it's been an unpolished diamond, all 3 app's have substantial applescript implementation, and you could monitor the dealings in iCal and Addressbook simply by assigning a folder action initiating the syncronization, by the introduction of fm8.5 could fields in other databases ...SQL'ish ones at least be shown referenced just like images have been handled for ages in filemaker.

But the amount of spit and polish, required to make it work have been immense to say the least. But since this is a development tool and not automaticly a workflow tool, why should such integration be served on a silverplate??

--sd

[FestiveEmbalmer]

I wouldn't be so sure with your 'NO'. FileMaker has to get out a solution for the iPhone sooner or later, and Bento just fits right.

Looking more into Bento, it looks like a 'skin' for (existing) FileMaker applications. Probably developers will be able to port their custom sultions within Bento onto the iPhone?

Any more thoughts anybody?

It isn't Filemaker native but there is an article over at Advisor about how to create an app for the IPhone using javascript & CSS.

http://my.advisor.com/doc/19312

[Terrible Toll]

As you say the complication of setting up applescripting is considerable and not even completely possible. But a LIVE link to Address Book and iCal data would be much better - then no sync necessary.

P.s. Even the guys at Productive Computing took years to get a plug-in working successfully with the Address Book. However, they now have one that can push and pull the data and search directly which is really great. But it would be even better to be able to do this with iCal as well.

Tol

[JesseSFR]

Geoff took a look at Bento and posted an article about it. If anyone's interested:

http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/filemaker-gets-bento/

Stupid name I know... I don't write it

Jesse

[ricardito]

"I don't mind sarcasm, on any platform. Given a situation where FMI tells me "wait before you upgrade to Leopard until we have fixed some issues" and at the same time "try out this new application that requires Leopard", I don't know how sarcasm can be avoided. "

Exactly. Not only that, but if you have 8.5 then you MUST upgrade to 9 (big bucks for us developers) because they can't be bothered to apparently load 8.5 on Leopard for testing.

But hey, here's a product you might like!

FMI deserves criticism, deserves any po'd developers that rant at them. It's pure BS that I have to upgrade to 9 because they apparently really don't much care how much it will cost us. They have us over a barrell and fully intend to take advantage of it.

Nice.

[comment]

Your information is outdated:

http://filemaker.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/filemaker.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=6703

[FestiveEmbalmer]

I agree with the sentiment that they are deserving of criticism. Rabid witchhunts excepted, I do not see why FMI should be immune to users frustrations when such an obvious priority shift has occured.

While I don't think that this an unpardonable sin, it bothers me that their resources are invested in a new product, seemingly disproportionate to the interests of current customers.

I have faith that they are working diligently on FM/Leopard compatibility, but it gives me pause to wonder; have Filemaker users acquired a reputation of loyalty or dependence that justifies exploring new markets while serving their FM base with minimal effort?

If they have deprioritized FM support for Mac OSes, how can Win users expect any better in the future?

At the same time, I cannot help but think that this new product is part of a larger plan to enlarge the personal DB market. This cannot but help Filemaker, unless Apple decides greater profit lies elsewhere.

[Ano Nimus]

I can see Bento becoming FMIs very own iPod, to be honest.

Ultra easy to use, joining a couple of apps together that everyone uses and would like to be using together, very good-looking. And very cheap, too.

Go halo-effect ;)

[Søren Dyhr]

it bothers me that their resources are invested in a new product

You can't posible tell the rest of us how many of those deployed on fm9.5 and fm10.0 ... but we've been told that work is going on for at least 3 lines of production! What makes you think the entire staff have been tied up making something else than the pure dedication to the product we have in our hands??

The lack of responsiveness to pure technical demands is usually because they're are busy redefining what to expect in the future ... a well considered Sun Tzu'ish strategy ... making the enemy think the standard troops are the elite and visa versa.

Please convince me that your statements isn't the noises usually heard from underachievers, gaging for closed communites, and similar counter-progressive feelings.

--sd

[LaRetta]

What makes you think the entire staff have been tied up making something else than the pure dedication to the product we have in our hands??

I have no problem with FileMaker developing other products. But it is NOT okay that they spent their resources developing new things when they have bugs still UNFIXED in a version which came out two full versions past the bug!

I'm talking about the STILL BROKEN Go To Layout () garbage which happened again to me this past week. Oh sure ... it still works ... but I don't know which layout it is going to without runnning (debug) on the dang thing! It should have been fixed when 8.02 came out because that's when everyone was screaming about it (IIRC, it appeared with 8.0 when GTRR (matched set) came out. And it is still not fixed in 9. We still have radio button which like a child drew them, for God's sakes! Hot? You bet I am. :crazy2:

[Søren Dyhr]

Ah yes, their focus have hardly ever been on the genuine developers, those who are Anchor Bouy'ing and therefore knows when and where this happens ... Filemakers iPod'ish trick for the moment is to make a gist that you can't develop without the Adv. model, so every one passing by the tool as an option for solving a problem buys the more expensive model.

The workgroup strategy, are simply giving a better cash-flow, now with the introduction of Bento will this be even more substantiated. It simply doesn't pay off to listen genuine developers needs - We can feel grievance by this fact, or simply live with it that they always are busy something else ... more likely to sell copies.

You see the same thing happening at devcon, the term "developer" as such isn't the nerd, but the business developer/evangelist. I have kind of blamed your culture for this, but there might be a more ... pragmatic ... approach to it, the ripples our gestures in the marked courses are not as interesting because they do not make the same profit on VLA licenses as they would on the mom'n'pop shops often diffuse software demands.

When it comes to it are there few who are in doubt who produces the most cashflow of the tourmanagers of a boyband or the same of a free style jazzband?? Bento is really the iPod for filemaker.

--sd

[FestiveEmbalmer]

Soren:

You did not quote the entire statement. If all I said was "it bothers me that their resources are invested in a new product", than it is a very ignorant sentiment. My argument is that FMI appears to be investing time/effort disproportionate to their own interests. I would never presume to know what is happening behind the scenes at FMI.

I did make the assumption that their own interests were tied to the development community, and that they seem to be giving them a lower priority than their consumer power merits.

You seem to be arguing the same thing here:

Ah yes, their focus have hardly ever been on the genuine developers...

& here:

You see the same thing happening at devcon, the term "developer" as such isn't the nerd, but the business developer/evangelist.

But you also seem to argue that the real profit for FMI isn't in sales to developers. That gives me more to think about.

I am not angry because I want FMI to give more attention to developers who 'deserve' it, because of their product loyalty or some such. In fact, I'm not angry at all. I am disappointed that FMI seems to be acting against its own best interest, and I don't think they should be surprised when developers who are heavily invested in their product are angry because FMI doesn't seem concerned with their best interests.

Also, I think that in the end, new products like Bento improve the lot of FM developers.

with a lowered pitchfork and a raised eyebrow,

matthew

[Søren Dyhr]

You did not quote the entire statement

Thats an old naughty trick learned by reading Schopenhauer:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Always-Being-Right-Defeated/dp/1903933617/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195499981&sr=8-4

That gives me more to think about

It was exactly what I wished to convey! Every shop have a 80% percents of the complains originating from 20% of the customer base. They saw an opportunity for breaking thru big time in the consumers marked ... and the notion or ideal of keeping everybody happy is probably too far fetched. Their best interests are genuinely served by very very strategic considerations and actions.

http://www.amazon.com/Sun-Tzu-Art-War-Military/dp/095788687X

--sd

[Genx]

I wish FileMaker was a public company - then it could really judge how well it was doing and its future prospects by a factor other than just profits.

[Søren Dyhr]

Enron was a public company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

There isn't anything more grateful than prospects on glossy paper!

--sd

[FestiveEmbalmer]

Enron was a public company:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

There isn't anything more grateful than prospects on glossy paper!

--sd

Omilord ROFLMAO.

ah...capitalism.

[Genx]

Sure but the only reason you know about it is because it was a public company. As a private company it may not have come under as much scrutiny especially with the lack of transparency requirements and lower levels of oversight.

On the otherhand, shareholders tend to be relatively short sighted in terms of demand for profit and immediate performance, though maybe it could be bought out by a private equity group at that point lol.

[Steven Cappiello]

OK... let me first say that I feel all of the frustrations I've heard here. Especially comment's note about FileMaker 9 not being ready for Leopard with some other FileMaker product being well in the works. I guess I just feel that we shouldn't judge FileMaker so quickly without having all of the information. My personal guess is that there are folks at FileMaker dying to tell us exactly what is up but can't for various reasons... as far as Bento goes.. it seems like a cool FileMaker offshoot that is highly similar to demos I've seen at Devcon. I think FileMaker should branch off, experiment, and for THE FIRST TIME in years make an out-of-the-box tool that goes beyond the FileMaker demos. Believe me, there are things about the FileMaker application that I really wanted to see in version 9, but I challenge you to release your guard and entertain the proposition that perhaps Bento might be a good thing for the corporate creativity as well as the developer community. At least give them credit for trying to innovate.. and if you have to express your disagreement, please try to use constructive criticism and try to see where they might possibly have been going with Bento.

p.s.... do we fault Apple for working on the iPhone while they could be making better MacBook Pros ?? how can we just expect that FileMaker, the company, should devote 100% of its resources to our needs?

[Steven Cappiello]

p.s. when I saw Bento, I kinda thought this might bode well for what we might see in FM10

p.p.s. can anyone tell me why the video in the Bento Intro video is so god awful?

Edited November 24, 2007 by Guest

[Genx]

do we fault Apple for working on the iPhone while they could be making better MacBook Pros ?? how can we just expect that FileMaker, the company, should devote 100% of its resources to our needs?

Lol, well the one difference is that FileMaker the company is named after the product... or the other way around, but whatever. On a completely unrelated note though, the iPhone is freakin awesome (posted this reply off an iPhone - the forums actually hold up really well ).

In any case, I don't think anyone is blaming the developers, but rather people are simply airing repeated frustrations with FMI's support strategy and FM's damned UI tools.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Guest

[LaRetta]

... and if you have to express your disagreement, please try to use constructive criticism and try to see where they might possibly have been going with Bento

I have nothing against FM expanding and being innovate but constructive criticism according to you or me or whom? Oh, poor FileMaker, we are picking on them; get real...

Leaving an obvious break (since 8.0) in a solution past two FULL VERSION UPGRADES plus one updater is simple slop and if we Developers did that in our work we'd be out of business. They do not fix it because it doesn't pay as well as designing something new ... simple economics. Don't even try to suggest that we're picking on FM because we happen to disagree. I think the criticism is quite deserved!!

When given OBVIOUS examples of a barefaced bug, at least fix the puppy! I'm excited about FM expanding; I'm excited about Bento; I've cut them slack until I've hung myself with their poor decisions. FileMaker, at least clean up the obvious messes in your own house before taking on the world.

[comment]

I don't know about others, but since you picked me as an example, I have to say you have completely misconstrued my remark. I am not frustrated, and I place no blame on FMI's delay in supporting Leopard. Anyone who has followed the announcements of "Leopard-ready" by various software providers knows that FMI is not alone in this - even Apple themselves weren't ready with some of their apps. And I have nothing against FMI trying to innovate. How they spend their resources is their business, not mine. All I ask for is a decent product, with decent support.

Since you have chosen Apple for comparison, let me point out that the latest update to Tiger (which along bug fixes includes some new features) was released AFTER Leopard. Apple did this on their own - nobody had to write to them or complain in forums. And should we talk about how Apple supports its developers?

[innodat]

I really regret and find it sad that we are having some sarcastic people on board of this forum.

Hey budd! Where's your sense of humor?? LOL

PS: What - besides IRONY - can keep us sane, working with stone-aged FileMaker... eh?

[Heathbo]

Keep in mind that the Leopard bugs aren't totally FileMaker's fault. Apple screwed developers this time around by refusing to give them software development kits until Leopard hit the shelves. Thus FileMaker wasn't able to test FileMaker 9 until after Leopard came out.

As for Bento, from a business point of view it makes sense. Its generally a good idea to diversify. As long as you don't overextend yourself that is. Also, I'm sure most developers understand that sometimes its easier to develop a new solution than patch an old one. Thus it was probably easier and faster to develop Bento than to patch FileMaker 9.

Ultimately, what's done is done and life goes on.

[Lord Byron]

I must say that I've been amused at some of the comments regarding Bento, FMI and Apple. Who said that real FMI employees developed Bento? (1) There are many dozens of little companies doing all kinds of things for FMI and Apple. (2) Since Jobs killed off AppleWorks a database was missing from a good replacement. Apple provided Keynote, Pages and Numbers. Since FMI was the database branch and stood to benefit from the connection, Bento was released by the more logical choice. (3) I also think that we need to leave room for another element -- the ideas of Steve and those that serve him. (4) Finally, it's a product that had a development cycle that matured alongside of Leopard.

Now the interesting question which remains to be seen -- will some of what we see in Bento appear in a cross-platform product like FileMaker Pro 10?

I don't know about you but I had been hearing about what became Bento for quite a while.

Enough said.

As the saying goes, you can say anything you want your last day at Apple.

[Heathbo]

Does anyone know how Bento links with Apple's address book and ical? What files does it reference and how?

[Ocean West]

Bento uses the data that is stored in MySQL Lite which is the basis for storing data in Apple's address book and ical.

[Genx]

For what its worth its stored in SQLite which isn't affiliated with MySQL (from my knowledge).

[The Shadow]

Does anyone know how Bento links with Apple's address book and ical? What files does it reference and how?

I would suspect they are using the programming interfaces built-into MacOS, see Address Book interace.

If they were reading the sqlite3 files directly, Bento would break the next time there's a schema change in the database for the Address Book (or iCal) - I doubt they would want that.