Unbelievable : FMP 10 Hide status bar changes windows dimension

[genevieve charbon]

At the kind request of Ocean, I will keep my tone down, but frankly I'm outraged by what I discovered (and it really deserved all the vernacular in the world) : The Show/Hide status script steps actually changes the window whole dimensions of the window.

So If you create a new window with a 400 pixel height and that you're currently with the status bar enabled, and then decide to Hide the status bar the new window will shrink to 400-106 pixels !

Of course it didn't happened in FMP 9. So now you have to check your status bar status if you deal with windows. Thanks you FM Inc for this blatant lack of polish for a 18 month, +1.0 version.

P.S That's on the mac, I would be surprised that the behaviour would be different on windows, but can't check.

[comment]

Actually that's a good thing, because the visible part of the layout remains constant. It's also the standard behavior for applications, at least in OS X. Mail, for example, does the same thing.

[genevieve charbon]

Not at all comment, the visibble part of the layout actually shrinks, that's why I'm bitching !

[comment]

True, there seems to be a difference of 25 pixels, caused by the disappearance of the "ribbon". So, you'll need to adjust window size by 25px when closing/opening the status toolbar, if you want to keep the same visible area. An inconvenience, surely - but I would save this level of wrath to more serious issues (which I assure you are there).

[Steven H. Blackwell]

Let's try this from a different angle. What do you want to happen when the status area changes, one way or the other, i.e. opened or closed?

Steven

[mr_vodka]

Although some pre-existing solutions will have to be redesigned with the status area turning into the status toolbar and that I STILL look for the list of layouts on the side, I agree that it was a Interface change that needed to happen at some point. Most standard applications that we are accustomed to have a top toolbar.

Furthermore, the function is new window (with size settings) and resize window... NOT resize layout. I dont see the flaw in FMI's thinking here.

Ideally, introducing a floating pallete at some point would be the most beneficial, but until then the changes are welcome for the most part.

[genevieve charbon]

True a top bar is "à la mode" but that doesn't excuse a crappy toolbar. A toolbar that works, yes, a toolbar which was thought about yes. Not some irresponsible work.

I just discovered that in find mode the toolbar has not the same height than in browse mode.

So when you do a search the whole interface slides up. Brilliant !

So I'm a user in browse mode, I want to search that filed. I mouse toward it naturally. Then cmd-f, now I've to slide up my mouse because FMP inc can't be smart enough to have the same height for every mode.

Not to mention the embarrassing "dance" that occurs.

This is truly an amateurish work !

-----

Back on the topic.

Yes it's resize windows, so why the toolbar or not changes the size I wanted to set up ? FMP 9 behaviour was ok, nobody was saying it was stupid because it made sense. Now that FMP 10 appeared it seems that the old way no body complained about was bad fo some people.

In FMP 9, you set the windows size the window size is set, with or without toolbar.

And I'd care about FM Inc thinking if there was any. Contrary to what comment first thought (and that would have made some sense) the layout inside also varies in height. So we have both window size and layout real estate that varies…

[comment]

I just discovered that in find mode the toolbar has not the same height than in browse mode.

That is not my experience at all.

FMP 9 behaviour was ok, ... no body complained

Then I am no body.

At the kind request of Ocean, I will keep my tone down

That's good advice - I wish you would take it to heart. No one enjoys having a conversation at this tone.

[genevieve charbon]

Ok you're right, but maybe that's even worse.

You're right because you didn't customize the toolbar like I did (and forgot about) to show icons only.

Of course I didn't customize the toolbar that way in the find mode. Hence the jumpy beahviour.

In my opinion it's very wrong that the way : icons / icons + text / + text only has to be set per mode. It should be global.

User will certainly customize the standard browse mode, but certainly not the 2 other ones that are transitive ones.

So they'll get the a jumpy window !

So we're even more to pain when to predict a window size (which we didn't had to predict because we set it in FMP 9).

[genevieve charbon]

To get back to the original subject..

In FMP 9 I could do this script

# Make new window with size 200 x 400

# hide status area

and my 200x 400 layout would have looked perfect

in FMP 10 ? I don't know yet.

Somethng like that ?

# Make new window with size 200 x 400

# hide status area

# RESIZE WINDOW 200 x400

Thanks for the extra steps, if it's enough

and thanks for having me wandering all my code to had that redundant step (if it's the only one needed).

Not to mention that this is illogical redundance will yield error for newbies that won't understand their layout are badly displayed because of this.

Sizing twice is very logical and not at all time consuming. Thanks FM inc.

And FM Inc. Please be logical to yourself, Remove the sizing option of the new window scrip steps since we have to resize it anyway.

Compatibility with older solution ? who cares, I've to rework my code anyway !

Edited January 13, 2009 by Guest

[mr_vodka]

I am still not sure what your complaints are...

Yes FMI make a change to standardize their navigation with the software industry.

Yes it stinks that ALL developers will have to adjust their layouts to accommodate for the relocation if they have incorporated use of the status area.

Whereas the developer had to accommodate the right side margin in pre-10 solutions, now they will have to mind the bottom threshold.

I still dont follow your complaint with the window size. The window size is just that the size of the WINDOW, not the layout or the status area.

Perhaps there is an issue on a mac?

On windows, regardless of whether or not you display the status toolbar on the original layout, when you open a new window, the size of the window is the same.

I have attached a screenshot. Both popups use the same script. The only difference being that the original background layout had the toolbar showing first then not showing for the second...

[comment]

Doesn't work the same way on a Mac, John. When you collapse the toolbar, the window slides smoothly up to close up the space. Unfortunately, just before the end, it hiccups and jumps another 25 pixels up, presumably to make up for the ribbon underneath the toolbar. But at this point, the bottom border of the window stops following - so that in the end, the layout's visible area is extended downwards by 25px (see the white strip in the left window).

[David Jondreau]

There is some inconsistency on a Mac and I haven't figured it out totally out yet, but I do observe the following:

If the application active window is not completely maxed out in the vertical dimension, the window will shrink when hiding the Status Toolbar and grow when showing it.

If the window is maxed it won't shrink or grow.

If the Status Toolbar is hidden and window is tall enough that showing it would make the window taller than the desktop, it doesn't grow. But then hiding it again makes it shrink.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Guest
excuuuuuse me :)

[comment]

Application window? What's that?

[LaRetta]

The application window is something I hunted frantically for when I first opened FileMaker on my Mac. :jester:

[comment]

If the window is maxed it won't shrink or grow.

AFAICT, the window will ALWAYS shrink. It won't grow beyond the overall height of the desktop (though I can see it trying, then changing its mind).

[David Jondreau]

AFAICT, the window will ALWAYS shrink.

That's not my experience.

To clarify: If I Show the Status Toolbar and drag the left corner of the active window to the bottom of the screen then click on the Status Toolbar icon on the lower left, the window does not shrink. Toggling the Toolbar in that way does not change the window height (but does toggle the Status Toolbar).

Edited January 13, 2009 by Guest

[bcooney]

Yeah, on Mac w/FM10, if you max the window, then hide the status area, the window shrinks. You really need to hide status, then resize to fit or set window size. I see lots of subtle script changes.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Guest

[Fenton]

Makes perfect sense to me. FileMaker tries to keep your "content" area the same, so increases the overall size of the window if it can. If there isn't room, then it doesn't.

One odd thing I just noticed, having just installed FileMaker 10 on my Windows partition. Customize Toolbox is quite different. On the Mac, there is a choice of Icon, Icon & Text, or just Text. I did not see this on Windows; which had more of an application tab type window (for customizing tool bars). I suppose each is more standard on each platform.

I like Text only for a less intrusive view while I'm working. I cannot see why FileMaker can't put the record count in it however. Why penalize us if we like non-intrusive interfaces? We don't need the (clunky) rolodex, we're quite capable of seeing that info as numbers, with some clever horizontal graphic for scrolling.* There is a load of room on the right side that is basically wasted.

*Yes, I realize that then it wouldn't be all text. I believe Gurdjieff once said, "A conscious man works with a lawful degree of inconsistency"

I say, "Just make it work"

[David Jondreau]

If you max the window, then hide the status area, the window shrinks.

I have a non-sliding window when using Maximize in addition to doing it by hand.

The layout I'm testing on is taller than the active window. Is that true of your layout? Have you tried it in List view?

I'm not sure if it matters in the end, but I am curious if there's an anomaly. 10.4.11, still the Pre-release version.

[comment]

drag the left corner of the active window to the bottom of the screen then click on the Status Toolbar icon on the lower left, the window does not shrink.

The only corner I can drag is bottom-right. But it seems that no matter how/where I position the window, or how I collapse the toolbar (icon at the bottom, or lozenge at the top), the window still shrinks.

[bcooney]

I'm using the Maximize Window script step, not dragging the bottom right corner.

My layout isn't taller than the window.

I tried in list view with enough records to go past the size of the window.

Still shrinks when I hide the status area.

Not pre-release.

[David Jondreau]

Huh.

Maybe it's a pre-release thing. Or an OS version thing.

You might think I was going crazy, after mixing up my left and right, but here's a video screen capture.

iShowU-Capture1.mov

Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest
better video posted

[bcooney]

I see. Can't duplicate the non-resize here.

[mlemmnapa]

Never use the status bar it's pretty much always been worthless and now with 10 even more so. It's there for new users ONLY (I mean they have to give new users some way to find and navigate through records) and should never be used for serious development. I use to use it only in Find mode but now I won't be doing this any longer since the redesign so awful. Oh well can't have everything. This is just my opinion of course.

-Mark Lemm

[HazMatt]

I've submitted a bug report on this one here:

http://forum-en.filemaker.com/fm/board/message?board.id=aut&message.id=5301

Almost a year later and it's still out there I guess. I have linked a video of the problem and a nice workaround using Custom Menus for those who have FM Advanced.