Behavior Changes in FM 11?

[Matt Klein]

Hi all -

I got bit by the change in Target Window Handling between FM 9 and FM 10. Nothing serious and it was easy to remedy.

Anyone know of any behavior changes introduced in FM11? I get the impression the answer is no, but if anyone knows of any changes, I'd love to know.

[Perren]

Maybe not a "behavior" change, but the default keyboard shortcuts for the first 10 listed script items is gone now (ctrl/cmd + 1, etc...).

Where'd they go?!?

[iMarcW]

I'm seeing the script command keys in my copy of FM 11, both with custom and standard menus.

[Steven H. Blackwell]

As noted elsewhere see http://thefmkb.com/7574 for important information about behavior changes.

Steven

[Matt Klein]

Thanks Steven! I looked for something like that on the 9th. Looks like they added it. I appreciate the link.

I did find a behavior change that isn't listed in that document. It has to do with Custom Menus.

In previous versions of FM that supported Custom Menus, you could set the Override Title to "" on a Custom Menu to have no title for the menu at all. I did this to create some spacing between menus and/or to include menu items in a menu that I didn't want to distract the users with.

In FM11, if you set the Override Title to "", the menu will not be included any longer in the menu bar.

The solution is to use a space character(" ") instead of null("").

[Steven H. Blackwell]

In previous versions of FM that supported Custom Menus, you could set the Override Title to "" on a Custom Menu to have no title for the menu at all. I did this to create some spacing between menus and/or to include menu items in a menu that I didn't want to distract the users with.

In FM11, if you set the Override Title to "", the menu will not be included any longer in the menu bar.

Correct. This is a change in behavior. it is potentially useful.

Steven

[Matt Klein]

I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are about it's potential usefulness. Care to expound?

[David Jondreau]

This will be useful.

I can make layout specific menu items without having to create entirely new menu sets.

[Matt Klein]

I found another behavior change....

It has to do with Paused scripts.

The Scenario:

You defined a button on a layout to Perform Script["ScriptA"] with a script parameter of Get(ScriptParameter) and set to Pause Current Script.

You then run a script, ScriptB, that goes to that layout and Pauses indefinitely.

You then click on that button while ScriptB is paused.

FM7-FM10 Behavior:

ScriptA runs and is passed the script parameter from ScriptB.

FM11 Behavior:

ScriptA runs and is NOT passed the script parameter from ScriptB.

[bcooney]

Are you saying that in FM7-FM10, the parameter persisted? Any script that had Get (ScriptParameter) if called from another script, and NOT passed a parameter, it would inherit the "last" script parameter that was "out there?"

In the setup you describe, why would you NOT pass Script A a parameter when the button is clicked, since your code expects one? Were you counting on some other script parameter to persist?

[Matt Klein]

No, no. I AM passing ScriptA a parameter when the button is clicked. That parameter is Get(ScriptParameter).

In my setup, ScriptB was passed a parameter. In ScriptB there is a Pause/Resume Script step that pauses ScriptB. There is a button on the visible layout when ScriptB is paused that performs ScriptA and passes Get(ScriptParameter) as the parameter.

In FM7-10 the script parameter that was passed to ScriptB would be passed to ScriptA when the button was clicked.

In FM11 the script parameter that was passed to ScriptB is NOT passed to ScriptA when the button is clicked.

This technique may not be part of best practices. I'm just pointing out that it is a behavior change in FM11 that "bit" me. Luckily, I only used in one spot in my solution so it wasn't too bad.

[bcooney]

OK. I'm lost. You don't pass Get (ScriptParameter) as a parameter! Your script retrieves a script parameter using Get (Scriptparameter). You pass a value or a $var as a scriptparameter. So, whatever..

[David Jondreau]

I've never used this technique, but Matt is correct. In FMP10, passing Get(ScriptParameter) as a script parameter passes the parameter of the next script on the stack.

This doesn't work in 11.

See attached.

PauseGSP.fp7.zip

[andries]

wow this was a nice technique. Actually really logical, but never thought of this...

[Matt Klein]

OK. I'm lost. You don't pass Get (ScriptParameter) as a parameter! Your script retrieves a script parameter using Get (Scriptparameter). You pass a value or a $var as a scriptparameter. So, whatever..

I pass Get(ScriptParameter) all the time to sub-scripts in lieu of using Global variables. I like to minimize the use of Global variables, so if I call a script and pass it a parameter and then call a sub-script that needs data from the main script's parameter, I simply pass Get(ScriptParameter) to the sub-script.

[Matt Klein]

I've never used this technique, but Matt is correct. In FMP10, passing Get(ScriptParameter) as a script parameter passes the parameter of the next script on the stack.

This doesn't work in 11.

See attached.

Thanks for the sample file DJ. I should have supplied one myself. I appreciate the assist.

[Matt Klein]

wow this was a nice technique. Actually really logical, but never thought of this...

Yeah, it worked really well until FM11. I'm just glad I only used it in one spot. It didn't end up being too much of a mod to work around the behavior change.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Guest

[bcooney]

Thanks for explaining further, and now I'm thinking, "did I do this anywhere?" Typically I set get (sp) to a $var, bcs it documents the script better, imho. So, I'd pass $var to the subscript.

[Kevin Mortimer]

Hi all

So are you saying that if you have a pause indefinitively script ( scriptA) running and that when scriptA is terminated from the button properties when perform another script ( exit current script )...that all parameters held by ScriptA are now lost. So the only way to get parameters passed on beyond a loop Pause indefinitely EnndLoop script is to now use $$Variables.

A real pity as it worked so well in FMP10

Edited March 29, 2010 by Guest

[Noobee]

Seems to me that FMP 11 took away more than it gave back....

[bruceR]

Seems to me that FMP 11 took away more than it gave back....

Logic error. Generally, 1 < 50

http://www.filemaker.com/products/filemaker-pro/whats-new.html

[Josh Ormond]

Seems to me that FMP 11 took away more than it gave back....

I disagree. There are things I don't quite understand why the change was made...but there are a number of little annoyances that were fixed. Many of them very simple things that make working with FM much better.

Not everything is a "FEATURE". So they aren't listed. But they are there.

[LaRetta]

Logic error? Well, they took away approx. 10 bugs that were in vs. 10 (and left the serious import bug and freezing value lists in headers) and instead brought in 25-30 bugs (mostly Mac, for a change).

I would rather they focus on fixing all of the bugs and not adding ANY functionality than to add a few new items (most of which are poorly half-implemented). I would rather pay for software which works than to pay for Quick Start and My Favorites and such.

[bcooney]

Bruce,

I have to agree with LaRetta. I'm certainly not using FM11 for production until at least the first v. rev.

Barbara

[LaRetta]

Hi Barbara, nice to talk to you again!

We are designing for a new release using vs. 11 (not my choice) but I have great [color:red]*fear as I read about the bugs being discovered (and even greater fear for those bugs yet undiscovered). I wouldn't worry if I felt FMI stood behind product support and fixed bugs in the current 'for sale' version but that is not their pattern (vs. 10 was out seven months without a single updater when it was verified that it had MANY serious bugs still remaining).

Some may tout the benefits of vs. 11 (and I like most new items as well) but I caution against quick upgrade (and blanket verbal blind support because of loyalty to FMI) for a product unproven, untested and without proper backing from FMI.

Any bugs not fixed within the first 6 months probably won't be ... and another upgrade to the next version (they release new versions every 15-18 months) will be required to even get a bug fixed. They simply release versions too fast to properly test and fix bugs. This is simply my opinion; they need to slow down and quit focusing on making money and concentrate on building up a reputation of quality software. In doing so, they will solidify customers' (us) loyalty.

UPDATE: [color:red]* ... I confess to being (sometimes) overly cautious but better safe than stuck with a version with major bugs which FMI won't fix ...

Edited March 31, 2010 by Guest
Added Update

[bcooney]

Good to see you here again, LaRetta. :hello:

Yes, I strongly agree with you on this. Perhaps the money that'll flow in from Bento for iPad will fund the FM team.

It's disheartening, but understandable, to see the focus for FMI to be the converted Excel user and not the FM "power user." I find many of the features are attempting to put the more powerful techniques of FM in the hands of novices. (Wouldn't it be nice if Bento was xplat, and that is the "convert the Excel user" product?) Anyway, I'd like them to throw their loyal users and developers a bone too. And unfinished features are more an insult than a blessing.

Here's hoping for v rev soon!

PS: I can't even imagine using FM11 for the commercial runtime that I develop. Absolutely no reason to do so (no Charts, still no PDF), and nothing but huge headaches for the install!

[aholtzapfel]

UPDATE: [color:red]* ... I confess to being (sometimes) overly cautious but better safe than stuck with a version with major bugs which FMI won't fix ...

This is not being overly cautious, I upgraded to Filemaker 8 when it first came out. I then spent months trying to figure out why the indexes in all my files went corrupt, finds stopped returning correct results, ?? records that could not be deleted, did complete rewrites of files to have the problem persist. When the first revision came out there was a small cryptic note that said this could be a problem.

So not overly cautious at all....

[bruceR]

Logic error? Well, they took away approx. 10 bugs that were in vs. 10 (and left the serious import bug and freezing value lists in headers) and instead brought in 25-30 bugs (mostly Mac, for a change).

I would rather they focus on fixing all of the bugs and not adding ANY functionality than to add a few new items (most of which are poorly half-implemented). I would rather pay for software which works than to pay for Quick Start and My Favorites and such.

I think your point is - as they say - orthogonal to my point. To look at FM11 and say "gee, the only thing I can see that's different is the icon color" is beyond blindness. And even on that issue , the icon level of detail is substantially different.

There have in fact been many and substantial changes in the product. Level of bugs, value of those changes for different users, net effect on dev productivity, poorly implemented changes, etc, are valid but different questions.

[LaRetta]

Hey Bruce, I don't see a question asked at all. I guess it it how you interpret Noobee's statement and your response. Noobee said, "Seems to me that FMP 11 took away more than it gave back...." and you said that statement was a logic error, using 1 < 50 as example.

If vs. 11 gives us 5 new things and fixes 15 bugs but creates 25 new bugs, it seems that they took away more than they gave (by 5 at least) as far as usability ; no logic error at all. If you don't believe that vs. 11 is full of serious bugs, you might want to check the FileMaker Forums where Macs are experiencing most of them.

So I was defending Noobee's statement and pointing out that FMI released 11 before fixing the bugs which we users discovered immediately upon release. And I was expressing my concern that the bugs added in vs. 11 won't all be fixed in the version which created them. Many bugs created in vs. 10 are carried forward already. Anyway, we each are entitled to our opinions; I just shared mine. :laugh2:

Edited April 1, 2010 by Guest

[RodSierra]

Back on the original topic to this thread, I had to develop a small run time today and thought I'd use 11 to see how the changes effect my work flow. Obviously the Inspector windows will improve productivity, and I find them useful but as stated before not complete, conditional formatting and button setup are sorely missing. But one big bad ugly change that really surprised me was the inability to drag and drop text clippings into calc windows. My normal work flow always has a small window open from the OS with a list of often used calcs in the form of text clippings, I simply grab and drop into the calc field, edit as needed. Well that is now not possible in 11, I found I can use them if I open the clipping copy it and then paste into the calc window, but no drag and drop. Its always the case anymore, you get one step forward, then another back, and so on, really frustrating.

[bruceR]

Back on the original topic to this thread, I had to develop a small run time today and thought I'd use 11 to see how the changes effect my work flow. Obviously the Inspector windows will improve productivity, and I find them useful but as stated before not complete, conditional formatting and button setup are sorely missing. But one big bad ugly change that really surprised me was the inability to drag and drop text clippings into calc windows. My normal work flow always has a small window open from the OS with a list of often used calcs in the form of text clippings, I simply grab and drop into the calc field, edit as needed. Well that is now not possible in 11, I found I can use them if I open the clipping copy it and then paste into the calc window, but no drag and drop. Its always the case anymore, you get one step forward, then another back, and so on, really frustrating.

I just dragged text from another app into a calc dialog; and from a desktop text clipping into a calc dialog. I did find that there seemed to be an issue with window position and by moving the calc window further away from the app window, it worked.

[bruceR]

I spend a lot of time on a lot of lists and forums and I don't think the bug list is comparable to the new feature list. But I could be out of touch.

[bruceR]

My normal work flow always has a small window open from the OS with a list of often used calcs in the form of text clippings, I simply grab and drop into the calc field, edit as needed. Well that is now not possible in 11, I found I can use them if I open the clipping copy it and then paste into the calc window, but no drag and drop.

OK I have done some further experiments and it looks like this is what you need to do. Basically you have to drag the clipping over some part of any other FileMaker window before you finally drag it into the calc dialog window. I guess you can think of it as needing to give FileMaker a wakeup call. See this thing? I'm dragging it to YOU FileMaker.

[RodSierra]

Bruce, thanks for that, I confirm that if you drag it around a bit it will be accepted, at least for that one we don't have to wait till who knows when to get it fixed. I was also seeing a lot of flashing on some pop ups when for instance selecting all text in a field and then right clicking text color, the swatch menu flashes a bit, then settles down, does it with couple other pop ups also, nothing major, but just tends to give you the feeling things are not too well de bugged.