Closing laptop damages file?

[Charity]

new used laptop MacBook Pro. I had my program open but it was not served, just on my laptop.  Two things is first it came on like energy shut down and then later I forgot and closed the laptop and I think it shuts down because I have to log in again.

 

So question is did I hurt my file when energy saver shut it off or when I closed it?  I never had a laptop before.  I turned off the energy and screen saver but I worry about my file now.

 

ps can you tell me what forum this should be under?  None seemed to fit my need so I hope this place is okay to post.

[Lee Smith]

I moved this to here because the Advance and Developer topic is for the discussion of the tools that come with that Edition of FileMaker.

 

Automatic message

This topic has been moved from "Advanced & Developer Features" to "Damaged / Corrupt File Problems".

Edited August 29, 2013 by Lee Smith
added additional info about why the thread was moved.

[Matthew F]

Hi Charity,

I don't think the energy saver or the screen saver should damage an open Filemaker file.  In Brows/Edit mode Filemaker saves your data each time you commit a record, i.e. each time you click out of data field. In Layout mode it saves your data when you exit Layout mode. 

 

If you are worried,  open Filkemaker Pro and use the File...Recover command, and then from here select your database. It will tell you whether it has found file corruption, and will try to extract the data into a new file.  

[Charity]

Thank you for helping me move the file, Lee.

 

And thank you Matthew!  I recovered my file and it seems just fine now!

[LaRetta]

Oh wow.

 

Charity, a file should never be used after Recover.  Recover is only used to attempt to correct the file so the data can be exported and then imported into a clean clone.  The process can further damage your file and these issues would not be ( necessarily ) be visible.  I highly suggest that you revert to a prior backup which has NOT been recovered.

 

Again, seriously, recovered files should not be used for future design and it says that right in the log it produces.  I apologise on behalf of FileMaker ... it should produce that message dialog when you first attempt to run Recover ( as a pop-up IMPORTANT message ) so people know before they run it.

 

I do not know if closing your laptop with FM open would damage your file.  But I would check further until I found someone who DOES know the answer for sure.  It would be good if someone can confirm for you here on this thread.

[Charity]

Hello LaRetta!

 

Okay, I can replace the file no worries.  How do I move the 8 hours of work done yesterday after I recovered to my prior-recovery copy? I don't want to lose that work.

[Wim Decorte]

 

If you are worried,  open Filkemaker Pro and use the File...Recover command, and then from here select your database. It will tell you whether it has found file corruption, and will try to extract the data into a new file.  

 

Emphasizing what LaRetta states in this thread: Recover is not a file maintenance task.   If you ware worried about file damage, then do the recover on a *backup* of your file in order to get the report.

 

If have to use Recover for real, then its sole purpose is to be able to get the data out and import the data in a good (undamaged) backup of the file.

[Rick Whitelaw]

When a file is recovered, the original file remains as it was, no? It's the copy made by Recover that shouldn't be used.

[Matthew F]

It's unclear to me, is whether any file damage occurred at all.  Just because Charity's computer shut down, does that mean that her file is corrupted?   Did she notice any abnormal behavior? Did the recover command find any errors? If not, then I would think that that there wasn't any damage to begin with (other than having lost uncommitted changes) and she'd be fine using the original. 

[LaRetta]

Hi Matthew,

 

It would be wise if you checked out your information.  This is Wim's specialized field ... closing a FileMaker file improperly CAN cause corruption, it may not present a single symptom, and Recover may or may not spot it.  

 

Just start reading posts here in this Damaged/Corrupt Files section.  There are hundreds of discussions about it - I do not have the time to find them right now but here is one link http://www.filemaker.com/12help/html/recover.40.7.html

 

As I said, I do not know for sure that closing a laptop will close FileMaker improperly - which is why I didn't answer the question when originally asked.  Her original file might have been fine.  We still haven't received confirmation from anyone one way or the other.  But this has now cost Charity a day's work in rebuilding her file because she Recovered and then continued to build on the recovered file.

 

Hi Rick,

 

You are correct in that the original file will remain intact.  :-)

 

Hi Charity,

 

I'm so sorry but there is no easy way to move what you've done into the new backup.  Copy/paste of fields, scripts or objects can bring any damage forward with it and should not be risked.  You will need to either revert to your original file and lose your current work (if you can not get confirmation that it was not improperly closed)  or continue on your Recovered file (risking that it may have damaged your file in its recovery attempt).

 

I would rather lose work than risk continuing to build on a possibly-damaged file.  I have seen (and I'm sure Wim has as well) where someone continues to build on a file which has crashed which seemed fine ... and then six months later (after hundreds of design-hours), recognised corruption in a layout or object and THEN have to rebuild the entire six months' work.  

 

Folks, if ever in doubt, go to backup.  Back up often.  I back up every hour when designing (sometimes every 15 minutes even).  Never use a Recovered file.  Never continue to use a file which has closed improperly.  Normally, I believe in never saying never but not in this case.

[Charity]

Major bummer that I lost that work. I am going to assume that closing my laptop is like turning the power off to my computer and that it would hurt my program.  I will always close FileMaker before closing down since nobody seems to know either.  Better to believe the worst in this case and be safe than risk building on damage.

[Matthew F]

My apologies Charity, for my original post, that didn't state that you shouldn't use the recovery command other than for the diagnostic report or as a means of recovering data from a damaged file.  

 

I don't believe anyone mentioned that, when opening a file, Filemaker will often provide diagnostics if detects that a file that was improperly shut down.  LaRetta's Filemaker link provides a list of circumstances in which data corruption might occur, and Filemaker will often given you a warning when opening a file following one of these events.  However, it does not list sleeping a computer (or closing a laptop lid), and these don't normally invoke an error message.  

 

Having to login to your system account might be normal behavior for a sleeping computer (depending on the computer settings).  In this case Filemaker should still be running and your solution should be open, right where you left it, after you login.  If your Filemaker solution made you login again, then the file probably was closed (perhaps improperly).  

 

Is it necessary resort to a backup, if no diagnostic errors are reported every time a laptop goes to sleep?  If this were a common occurrence, I would think this would be devastating weakness for Filemaker.  I would be most worried if the sleep event occurred while Filemaker solution was clearly busy with a script, sort, or calculation when it was put to sleep --  or there was some reason to suspect that the file was improperly closed. 

[K1200]

I want to add some comments to this discussion — and then see if anyone has experienced sleep-related file corruptions other than the one I describe here.

 

First, any laptop should have its Power Options set so that it enters Sleep Mode when it is closed. I also set mine to enter Sleep Mode when the power button is pressed ... but that’s an individual preference (which doesn’t require FileMaker to always be closed before the button is pressed).

 

As a result, the only problems I’ve ever encountered are when FileMaker is running when the laptop enters Sleep Mode AND the battery subsequently drains down (which loses the contents of RAM).

 

In that instance, all “work in progress” changes are lost. Plus, Windows is not able to perform the necessary housekeeping on the open FileMaker file(s). Invariably, a file is reported as “not closed properly” upon the next restart.

 

Part of any restart of a FileMaker application is verification of the primary file(s). Most of the time, the file verification completes with no problems found. But sometimes it doesn’t, in which case it usually reports that the file can’t be read at all.

 

This is where I’ve always (except for one case in 5 years) been able to Recover the file and transfer the contents per the prescribed methods.

 

One safeguard against battery drain down, of course, is to use the laptop’s hibernation feature, which writes the entire contents of volatile RAM to disk before powering down the processor — and which restores RAM upon power up. I have never experienced a file corruption associated with hibernation.

 

So, does anyone’s experience differ? And by that, I’m talking about in mainstream PC operation, not when the PC is struck by static discharge or other such case.

[LaRetta]

Thank you for speaking up.  I'm new to laptop (MacBook Pro from Windows desktop) so I simply couldn't offer a worthwhile opinion on it (when Charity originally asked).  With this rMBP, I back up every 10 minutes and I replace the file if it even blinks; I figure it is best to be safe.  But as Matthew points out, it wouldn't make sense for damage to occur if it 'goes to sleep' so a deeper understanding is appreciated!

 

All I can think is that, if in doubt, toss it out.  Truth.  LOL.  So removing doubt is always a good thing.  :-)

And I did not know this about hibernation - thank you.  I need to explore this new Mac a bit more. 

[Fitch]

FWIW, a runtime that I built for my wife a few years ago was corrupted more than once when it was left open when she shut her laptop. I don't know for sure if the battery then drained, but it's possible. Still, I wouldn't risk it, I always close all FileMaker files when I'm done. Hell, I do that on desktop machines too!

[Wim Decorte]

Agreed with Fitch and LaRetta.

 

Relying on the OS and machine features to do everything properly is putting a lot of trust in complex and somewhat opaque process that can change with any OS update.  Better to be safe than sorry and close the files before closing the lid.  It's only a small habit to get into and can avoid a world of trouble.

[Rick Whitelaw]

Wim,

Agreed. When I leave my desktop machine for any reason that may take enough time for the machine to sleep, I close FM. In my case this also has the advantage of having every open file create a copy of itself that Time Machine will back up. It's a no brainier. It takes no time to close the files and virtually no time to open them when you return. I still find it unlikely that sleeping a machine, whether laptop or desktop, would cause file corruption however.

[LaRetta]

I agree that it is unlikely and it is a shame that there is so much uncertainty, Rick, but you are playing it wise.  Since damage to a file means the file should be replaced, it is the one thing we should protect to our utmost ability.  If a file gets damaged, we cannot copy elements from it to the prior backup so scripting, fields, portals - all changes and additions are lost since our last clone from the original.  

 

One cannot uncorrupt a file regardless of the seduction of Recover.  

[K1200]

I'd like to add a couple of clarifications:

 

The cases I described are all related to FileMaker operation on PCs.  I apologize for not making that clear ... although I do sense that this class of issues applies to both platforms.

 

The cases I'm most concerned with involve users of distributed runtimes.  They never seem to share what I would call "developer's perspective".  We, for the most part, are skeptical that all these moving parts will work as designed.  We tend to lock things down at every turn, never wanting to risk our most-recent work.  The average user, however, expects everything to "just work" ... which, thankfully, is the case most of the time.

 

So, I'd still like to hear of any failure modes that don't involve zaps to the hardware or batteries running down.  IOW, are file failures occuring to a degree that merits them being "on the radar"? ... or are they so few and far between that they are inconsequential?

[Charity]

Well once I found a Recover document on my desktop and it listed my file in it.  And all that had ever happened was I left this laptop on and went to fix lunch being gone about an hour.  So something must have happened.  I decided that I will never take my eyes off it again.  I lost many painful hours of work because of my own ignorance of recovering my file.  My fault alone.  What a wonderful group you are.

[webko]

My personal experience from nearly 20 years of FM development...

 

I have never had an issue with a file that was merely open in Browse or Find mode, and then the lid closed / power saver kicks in.

 

I have had two files that did not enjoy the above when I was in design mode defining fields and relationships.

 

YMMV, but in normal use (not design mode) I've not seen a file corrupt from lid closing or power saving.

 

Obviously, this does not mean that it can't happen. It's not something to lose too much sleep over though.