Warning: FM12 issues much worse than you think

[stefansmith]

I thought I would share some of my disastrous issues with FM12 --- some of these have not been discussed here.

Fortunately, fm support now has copies of the solution I have which demonstrates a huge number of problems and have been quite good in their feedback to date.

I have a solution that is quite complex in nature. It is hosted on a mac -- fm server 12.

Accessing this remotely over the Internet under fm11 was no issue. On fm12 it's a disaster. And here is one example that will frighten some of you!

The MANAGE DIALOG box --- under FM11 this would take around 2 to 3 seconds to open. Once opened you can scroll up and down the 427 layouts I have without a problem.

Under FM12 it takes around 3 minutes for the dialog box to appear. As you attempt to scroll you hit the spinning wheel. It takes around 7 or more minutes to go from top to bottom! And it never stops "spinning" as if it does not load all the data in which it needs. It is unusable - period.

Create a new script. Use the script step GO TO LAYOUT. Choose a layout! Same problem although the list appears more quickly. Use the search box to locate a layout. If I type the word "schedule" the letter s appears.....few seconds later the letter c......it can take up to 20 seconds for the one single word I have typed in to appear.

Fortunately, having submitted a clone to FM, they acknowledge the problem and have been able to replicate it. Bottom line, however, is it is impossible for me to do anything to the database remotely.

I have submitted to FM today in relation to FM12 Go a very long list of bugs --- documented and able to reproduce with ease --- and most are performance related.

And if you have a lot of scripts ---- with remote access it's like wading through mud! The scroll bars are slow....everything is slow.

Unfortunately, I am an idiot and upgraded our solution as soon as FM12 was released. You live and learn!

Unfortunately, Fm11 - windows XP

With Fm12 FileMaker have joined the likes of Microsoft when they released windows vista! It's that bad....

As for LIST view.......in our solution all I can say is you haven't seen anything yet!

[Rick Whitelaw]

"Unfortunately, I am an idiot and upgraded our solution as soon as FM12 was released. You live and learn! "

Surely when you converted your solution to 12, you still retain the 11 versions as they were, no?

[stefansmith]

Yes, I did indeed. Alas, we only have one server so I tested the client and it was fine....so I thought. To upgrade I had to remove FM11 and install FM12...by which time a day later it was in a live environment with next to know users due to a holiday weekend. It would have been possible to back track with quite a bit of work to re-enter live data back into the FM11 solution, but I spent an entire weekend coding for the new features offered by FM12 that I had to make a decision....live with it or switch back. I have taken a punt to live with it....that may well bite me, I don't know yet.

But the important thing is I was fundamentally stupid....just sharing my negative experiences so others don't follow in my foot steps!

[K1200]

Rater than start another thread on this subject, I just want to concur with your observation/conclusion and add some emphasis on the MUCH.

We have no experience with slowdowns or crashes because we haven't been able to get far enough along to actually build a runtime. It has taken the better part of two weeks to ferret out specific effects/causes of GUI blemishes, alone. Among them:

The embossed effect does not port to FM12, even though they say it does. They must not have looked at things closely. The port result is a weak rendition, using gray lines instead of compatible colors. Embossed elements lose their crisp look. Plus, odd effects show up, depending on the background the graphic is on — like an extra border line that won't go away and that you can't control.

Tab panel lables do not port correctly. The low-level defs of the fonts and colors of the tab labels get corrupted. We have one panel were 3 out of 8 labels are completely disassociated, to the point that no edit affects them ... only the other 5 respond to a change. On another panel, the first 5 of 11 are normal and will change, but the last 6 are disassociated.

Hairlines are converted to an almost-invisible 0.25 point lines ... although you can edit in a decimal value of 0.6, which is about right, but is not a dropdown choice.

Themes are a total decoy/distraction for the serious developer. It took us a week of reading and videos to come to that conclusion. Now, I've read someone's posted opinion that the Change Theme command will destroy a finely-tuned application. I completely agree. If you touch a theme from a layout, FM12 switches on some internal CSS that's not in the theme and that you can't get at with any GUI edit. So, if you like the look and feel of your carefully-crafted portals and scrollbars, for example, don't touch a Theme.

In summary, we've taken our application through 5 major FileMaker version releases. This is the first time we're faced with having to do a complete makeover (a FileMakeOver?) on the entire set of software.

[bhanold]

Due to crash issues during filemaker 12 operating system linked functions (printing and sending email), I have been forced to do major alteractions to DBs and human user / operator procedures. Windows 7 crash reports shows FMOLE.dll as the crashed program. FMOLE.dll crash started FM11 ProAdv but very infrequent. FMOLE.dll crash is very routine in FM12 ProAdv.

Large printing or email creating 'jobs' (scripted procedures) have all been broken into multiple part sequences. One is to select / find the records and set a flag (set 1 value instead of normal 0). Once primary flag subgroups of records (another flag set) are chosen. Once both flags are 1 then print or email sent is invoked. Any crash means one matched the email set / printed pages versus sorted subgroup to 'pickup' and start the process again.

[Wim Decorte]

OLE has changed in 12... in the sense that OLE is no longer supported as a valid container data format for new inserts. Looks like whatever changes were made does impact existing records with OLE data. Do make sure to contact FM support so that they can look at your data (if possible)

[g40sty]

Due to crash issues during filemaker 12 operating system linked functions (printing and sending email), I have been forced to do major alteractions to DBs and human user / operator procedures. Windows 7 crash reports shows FMOLE.dll as the crashed program. FMOLE.dll crash started FM11 ProAdv but very infrequent. FMOLE.dll crash is very routine in FM12 ProAdv.

Large printing or email creating 'jobs' (scripted procedures) have all been broken into multiple part sequences. One is to select / find the records and set a flag (set 1 value instead of normal 0). Once primary flag subgroups of records (another flag set) are chosen. Once both flags are 1 then print or email sent is invoked. Any crash means one matched the email set / printed pages versus sorted subgroup to 'pickup' and start the process again.

Sounds like you have way too much time on your hands. If this particular function works better in 11, then why not just use 11?

[bhanold]

One, I will admit I was stupid for jumping with all four feet. (No prior FM4 through FM11 Pro, ProAdm or Server release has crashed at this level, freqency or required this level of 'conversion' effort.) I did not think I was in for this much blood shed. (FM has always been the Apple level of quality, not the Windows level.... grin)

Two, I am stubburn plus previously been paid for bleeding edge solutions. I have been doing DB design and programming for over 20 years. (DBs over 500MB in 1995. Beyond the DB, this involves tuning the O/S and hardware.) Beyond DB, I wrote assembler and operating system hardware drivers (drive arrays, controllers, etc.). For DB work, I get restults so bending the DB to do what I want is a challenge and rewarding for achievement.

To FM development, I volunteered to fix the FMOLE.dll issue if FM gave me the source code and associated notes. (carpal tunnel means I cannot do lots of typing / stratch coding but I can add debug lines and locate issues.) Yes, I have had to change programs because I found an OS bug so had to work around.

[normanicus]

Just noticed this observation from Wim Decorte:

Looks like whatever changes were made does impact existing records with OLE data

This is different. Filemaker are selling a data management tool and have provided a version that breaks that functionality. Most of the other stuff complained about since the release of FM12 concerns the presentation layer. No longer managing existing data correctly looks like defaulting on a legal responsibility.

[bhanold]

Follow-up, I have been able to reduce the crashing. I have been able to reduce the frequency. (and I have done more testing.) I have double checked the classic issues. (Do not does: db file being indexed by the O/S or other program; db file access permissions incorrect; no Plug-ins; no other software / programs running so no conflicts.)

FM 12 Pro accessing the same DB (from the same server on the same network) does NOT crash. In fact, I tried to print from FM 12 ProAdv which immediately went 'not responding'. While I allow FM 12 ProAdv to work through the initial hang stages, I opened and printed using FM 12 Pro the same records. Then I went back to FM 12 ProAdv.

Adobe Master Suite products display 'not responding' for short periods but recover and carry-on. I note this because I have tried many times to allow FM 12 ProAdv to work through and resume. Photoshop 64bit is a pretty demanding program on the system so resource wise it should be a bit similar to FM 12 ProAdv with a DB.

I can operate (add, remove, find, sort) the FM12 ProAdv with multiple medium and small DB (including multiple DB open at once).

Printing is still the almost guarenteed to crash activity. Printing manually or via a script are roughly equal for crash level. Any printing is very high crash level (almost guranenteed). The printing hang is initial FM 12 ProAdv opening / requesting a spooler file. Windows Spooler window with progress never makes it to 'page 1' displaying. (comparison, FM 12 Pro spooler file. Windows Spooler window progresses to page 1 then had a 'wait' before page 2 displays then subsequent page values display quickly.)

[Wim Decorte]

This is different. Filemaker are selling a data management tool and have provided a version that breaks that functionality. Most of the other stuff complained about since the release of FM12 concerns the presentation layer. No longer managing existing data correctly looks like defaulting on a legal responsibility.

Only to some extent. OLE is very old technogloy and has been deprecated by Microsoft a long time ago. FileMaker has supported up to this point for legacy purposes. If your functionality depends on this old and deprecated functionality you owe it to yourself to keep up to date with it and anticipate when you need to change.

I haven't read the FMI marketing material on OLE for 12 so I don't know if they left some ambiguity in there.

[nleon307]

I've got to agree that printing has been painful... and printing to PDF (if you are willing to wait for it) now converts text and vector graphics to images, making them unsearchable and significantly larger files that are less readable.

[NYPoke]

I was fortunate & DIDN'T jump with both hands & feet into V12. It is an Architecture change. First releases are notoriously problematic.

Our V11 Client crashes a few times a week. Has something to do with the Remote Desktop. Our is a Deployed App. Not too disruptive, just irritating. V12 crashed 3 times in 10-15 minutes.

The worst part, though, was the Server konking out on me. I closed the files & put in a newly converted set of our live files, for more testing. I couldn't restart Server. Rebooting finally fixed that, but I can't have issues with the Server. V11 has crashed once, in years of service.

The Version Numbers are misleading. Versions 7-11 should have been 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4 & 7.5. This should be 8. New architecture.

I love 12. I just can't run the company on it, until it is more reliable.

[liltbrockie]

....more reliable.

And quicker!

[Vivian M]

I just loaded Filemaker 12 to my MacBook. I am having trouble opening files remotely. Filemaker 11 works perfectly, but I cannot get FM 12 to list the available files. I still have FM 11 on my MacBook and can still connect to my files, but not with FM 12. What's going on?

[bcooney]

Perhaps the files you are trying to open are FM11 or earlier files? FM12 only opens FM12 files.

[mubashar]

OLE has changed in 12... in the sense that OLE is no longer supported as a valid container data format for new inserts. Looks like whatever changes were made does impact existing records with OLE data. Do make sure to contact FM support so that they can look at your data (if possible)

This is a disaster for me. I had linked FMPA11 through insert object with MapInfo GIS functionality. This beautifully provided an interactive window from within my FMP database to the world of mapping. In V12 there is no Insert object option so I can't insert new MapInfo maps, nor can I use the functionality that was available in V11 (I could zoom in/out, add map layers, etc.) . What can FMSupport do in this case if OLE is no more supported? Oh sure I can run scripts in FMP that will launch MapInfo, grab a picture of Map Window, insert it in FMP, but it will only be a static picture and can't stay synchronised with any changes in the map. E.g. see my video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpt6JWNvW2o

[Robert Moran]

The PDF issue is driving me crazy as well. I have had few problems with FM12 on either Mac or windows save for the PDF disaster on Win 7. I also bemoan the fact emboss is gone and cannot be imported into 12 files to make the solutions I create look good. Apple/filemaker has some real issues with this rev for sure and must address them quickly or they will lose money. I cannot go back to 11 as 12 has functions 11 does not have. This is such a drag because PDFs are crucial for backups and email sends.

[Josh Ormond]

Overall, many of the experiences with 12 have been positive since the release of 12v2 and 12v3.  I do admit I have a had some difficulty with generating PDFs from 12...but at the same time, I had issues with 11.

 

The "Save as PDF" functionality is a specially built function for FileMaker.  It is written, as I understand it, by Adobe, not FMI.  So with that said, I have tried, as much as possible, to use a 3rd party PDF creator to generate PDFs.  With a few exceptions, this has worked well for me.

 

The PDF issue is driving me crazy as well. I have had few problems with FM12 on either Mac or windows save for the PDF disaster on Win 7. I also bemoan the fact emboss is gone and cannot be imported into 12 files to make the solutions I create look good. Apple/filemaker has some real issues with this rev for sure and must address them quickly or they will lose money. I cannot go back to 11 as 12 has functions 11 does not have. This is such a drag because PDFs are crucial for backups and email sends.

[Ron Cates]

I agree there are many issues with FM12, but thus far I haven't experienced any frequent crashing and as for Pdfs. running the same script to save the monthly invoices ( usually a couple thousand ) in FM11 use to produce a really bloated PDF file for me. After converting to FM 12 the same PDFs were about a 10th of the size. One change I did have to make was to not have the found set of invoices switch to preview before saving or printing. Switching to Preview mode initially took a crazy long time. But since it wasn't necessary to switch to preview mode before saving the PDF I now leave it in Browse mode and it runs smooth and quick.

 

We converted quite a complex system and there were bugs and layout adjustments that had to be made, but we got through it ok. Maybe it would have been better to wait for 13 but I was anxious to take advantage of some of the better new functionalities introced in 12. The toughest part is, moving forward, although 11 has better performance and seems to be more stable by all reports, Staying with 11 means staying stagnant because all further functionality and developments will be based on the new format. But again, If you're considering switching, waiting for 13 might be a wise choice. About like skipping Vista and staying with XP until Windows 7 came out, which is what we did in our office.

 

Good Luck All

[Rick Whitelaw]

I print quite a lot from FMPA 12.03. Since I use a dynamic printer selection routine and my print routines are calculated Applescripts that call shell scripts, the scripts save as PDF to the temp folder and print from there. Although I've noticed the Save as PDF takes a bit longer than version 11, it works reliably and the printouts look great. To be clear, I print a small number of copies of several forms at least weekly. I don't have the demands some have with large offices. Oh . . . OS X 10.7.5. I really don't have any complaints about the latest FMPA for Mac.

[[email protected]]

I thought I would share some of my disastrous issues with FM12 --- some of these have not been discussed here.

Fortunately, fm support now has copies of the solution I have which demonstrates a huge number of problems and have been quite good in their feedback to date.

I have a solution that is quite complex in nature. It is hosted on a mac -- fm server 12.

Accessing this remotely over the Internet under fm11 was no issue. On fm12 it's a disaster. And here is one example that will frighten some of you!

The MANAGE DIALOG box --- under FM11 this would take around 2 to 3 seconds to open. Once opened you can scroll up and down the 427 layouts I have without a problem.

Under FM12 it takes around 3 minutes for the dialog box to appear. As you attempt to scroll you hit the spinning wheel. It takes around 7 or more minutes to go from top to bottom! And it never stops "spinning" as if it does not load all the data in which it needs. It is unusable - period.

Create a new script. Use the script step GO TO LAYOUT. Choose a layout! Same problem although the list appears more quickly. Use the search box to locate a layout. If I type the word "schedule" the letter s appears.....few seconds later the letter c......it can take up to 20 seconds for the one single word I have typed in to appear.

Fortunately, having submitted a clone to FM, they acknowledge the problem and have been able to replicate it. Bottom line, however, is it is impossible for me to do anything to the database remotely.

I have submitted to FM today in relation to FM12 Go a very long list of bugs --- documented and able to reproduce with ease --- and most are performance related.

And if you have a lot of scripts ---- with remote access it's like wading through mud! The scroll bars are slow....everything is slow.

Unfortunately, I am an idiot and upgraded our solution as soon as FM12 was released. You live and learn!

Unfortunately, Fm11 - windows XP

With Fm12 FileMaker have joined the likes of Microsoft when they released windows vista! It's that bad....

As for LIST view.......in our solution all I can say is you haven't seen anything yet!

 

 

I thought I would share some of my disastrous issues with FM12 --- some of these have not been discussed here.

Fortunately, fm support now has copies of the solution I have which demonstrates a huge number of problems and have been quite good in their feedback to date.

I have a solution that is quite complex in nature. It is hosted on a mac -- fm server 12.

Accessing this remotely over the Internet under fm11 was no issue. On fm12 it's a disaster. And here is one example that will frighten some of you!

The MANAGE DIALOG box --- under FM11 this would take around 2 to 3 seconds to open. Once opened you can scroll up and down the 427 layouts I have without a problem.

Under FM12 it takes around 3 minutes for the dialog box to appear. As you attempt to scroll you hit the spinning wheel. It takes around 7 or more minutes to go from top to bottom! And it never stops "spinning" as if it does not load all the data in which it needs. It is unusable - period.

Create a new script. Use the script step GO TO LAYOUT. Choose a layout! Same problem although the list appears more quickly. Use the search box to locate a layout. If I type the word "schedule" the letter s appears.....few seconds later the letter c......it can take up to 20 seconds for the one single word I have typed in to appear.

Fortunately, having submitted a clone to FM, they acknowledge the problem and have been able to replicate it. Bottom line, however, is it is impossible for me to do anything to the database remotely.

I have submitted to FM today in relation to FM12 Go a very long list of bugs --- documented and able to reproduce with ease --- and most are performance related.

And if you have a lot of scripts ---- with remote access it's like wading through mud! The scroll bars are slow....everything is slow.

Unfortunately, I am an idiot and upgraded our solution as soon as FM12 was released. You live and learn!

Unfortunately, Fm11 - windows XP

With Fm12 FileMaker have joined the likes of Microsoft when they released windows vista! It's that bad....

As for LIST view.......in our solution all I can say is you haven't seen anything yet!

Have you tried to incorporate a perform fin into your script first.  This will define the record you are working on only and all calculated/sammary fields in other records will be ignored.

 

Set Variable - $BlaBla - Flield A

Perform Find - Field A - $BlaBla

[ptr88l]

I agree with the sentiments that version 12 is not without major issues. I too converted a complex solution only to find issues down the track. Apart from some problems with layouts which I attended to I have found problems with some scripts on conversion and the major issue has been with PDF saving . My experience has been one of frustration and embarrassment as a FileMaker fan.. It is not stable on Mountain Lion.

As far as FileMaker Go is concerned I would not recommend it. It is slow and clunky and limited. Again problems with container fields storing PDF files. The support from FileMaker is anything but adequate and in my view a service that most should not accept.

Overall a very frustrating and disappointing experience. I would simply like FMI to be honest and responsive to their client base.

[Josh Ormond]

Honestly, I have found FileMaker to be responsive.

 

While I agree there are still some issues...I wouldn't call most of them major. Conversion of a complex solution is going to have issues.  I've seen similar nightmares with conversions of Wordpress databases, Drupal and Joomla conversions, PHP/HTML web solutions.  As a whole, we have been spoiled by the absence of a file format change.  The move from 11 to 12 was a BIG file format change.

 

Along with the change, our development will need to be tweaked. There are some things that 12 does much better...and some things it doesn't.  Just converting it from 11 to 12 doesn't remove the coding habits that we have ( myself included ) that don't work well with 12.  It has cause a little bit of relearning on my end, but not a ton.

 

As for stability on Mountain Lion, well, FileMaker 12 was released 3 months before Mountain Lion.  And just because FMI is owned by Apple, does not mean they know a new OS is coming. Because they don't.  Most of the issues I had heard of have been resolved by the v. releases.  What specific issues have you still been having?  Most of the stuff I hear complaints about lately have been more to do with a process stress-testing the host machine and crashing FM.

[David Jondreau]

I think many FM developers only have experience with FileMaker. I've done work in MS Access, WordPress, Magento, and MySQL/PHP/HTML. The upgrade experience for Access and Magento has consistently been horrendous. Upgrading WordPress and MySQL/PHP/etc has been similar to FileMaker, relatively painless.

 

I think there's a lot of unrealistic expectations.