I have a simple question. Regarding deleted records. If a record has been deleted is there any way to get it back. This is not related to any particular issue but is a general worry that I have.

If information were deleted would there be any way to get it back if there was no backup of this particular information?

A simple answer to this one.

I am afraid not. Unless you have a backup, once a record is deleted it is permanent.

If you are worried about records being deleted and do not have backups, make a seperate database for deleted records and write a script to import the record(s) to be deleted then delete them from the main system.

At least this way you can retrieve the record afterwards.

Someone once posted the following method. It works only if you notice immediately after you deleted a record that you want to get it back.

Yank out the power cord on the computer immediately. Then, plug it back in and reboot. Recover the file. Hopefully, Filemaker won't have had time to update the database to disk before you pulled the plug, and your record will still be there. Of course, you have to be rather desperate to try this method.

If for instance I could get in the biggest experts and the future of the company depended on retrieving the information could it be done?

Mark,

unless you follow Bob's advice (which is pretty drastic, and only a final resort)

I don't think any number of experts would be able to help you out.

Bobs option requires the deleted record to be noticed almost instantly, then pull the power cord.

Obviously, this could damage the database, and a recovery would then have to be done.

Once filemaker has updated the database, if you deleted records, then I am afraid they are gone.

Without a backup you have no fallback.

Actually, it's very hard to delete electronically stored information *completely*.

Since data on hard drives are stored on magnetic media, there is often traces of how the data has changed on the media.

There are certified procedures to delete data, which consists of rewriting the disk within specific patterns of data several times, to make sure the all traces of the data is lost.

If your data is worth enough, I would suggest that you contact IBAS, I think they are world leading in data recovery. I found this check list on their web site (www.ibas.com).

Don

When in danger or in doubt,

Run in circles, scream and shout.

The problem here is that Filemaker doesn't keep current changes in RAM, and then update the file itself only when you tell it to save; FMP saves changes to the file directly. There are advantages to this, and of course some disadvantages as well.

If you've already encountered this problem, you're probably scrod. For the future, making a regular backup is ... well, it's something everyone seems to have to learn the hard way (myself included!).

Alternatively, you can go into Edit:Preferences:Application, click the "memory" tab, and set FMP to save every 10 minutes (or whatever) -- that way, you can force quit, or perform a hard shutdown of the computer, often before FMP has a chance to save the unwanted change. There can be damage to the file, however, so have a clone handy -- recovered files are more likely to have the data intact than the programming, so importing the recovered data to the clone will retrieve the programming as well.

So are you worried that you won't be able to retrieve a deleted record, or that you WILL be able to?

I recently was faced with a company that had many different password levels and wanted to keep data 100% safe...so I disabled the FMP Delete function and built a "delete" button into the interface. What the button does is mark the record as "Deleted" in a special field so that it still exists...but doesn't display. Later, the administrator can "scub" the database and view the "deleted" records so that you can see if something was accidentaly deleted or deleted with malice. This prevents not only accidental deletion...but a malicious employee from damaging records. When you run the "scrub script"...the admin can permanently delete or return records to the database.

Oh yeah...you can build a script to export all "Deleted" records at the end of the day and then delete them from the file immediately so that they don't use additional space. This way you still have copies of deleted records for review.

[ March 09, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: agraham999 ]

How do I get the database to only display only the non deleted data? Not the items marked as deleted. Does this mean that I will always have to create a find?

Yes, use a find. Or create a self-join relationship and use portals and the Go to Related Record [show] script step.

Most interface navigation will need to be scripted and tightly controlled.

Would it not be easier to set up a script to export the item then delete? I think that finding going into every view would slow everthing up.

Mark,

It would be easier to have a deleted records database and set up an import routine

Find one record in your main database.

Do a manual import from the deleted records db.

Write a script, Import records, restore, no dialog, specify file.

then call this script when someone clicks the delete record button for a single record

Show all records

Omit Record

Show omitted

Perform script [external, import deleted]

Delete record [no dialogue].

Obviously for a delete of more than one record will need a different script.

But you will have to control how they delete records.

DO NOT let the user delete a record from the records menu.

Since posting this forum I think what I will need for my system is some sort of automatic backup system. Ideally this would not let a user get into the system untill the backup has been done. Is there a plug in available to do this. I ideally would need something that would work with our systems, making sure that every day the system is completely backed up. Then it would have to ensure that the user uses the correct medium to back the system up. Suggestions would be most welcome.

FileMaker Server.

You can set up mulitple backup routines.

Every even hour.

Every odd hour.

Even every x minutes if you wish.

Once at the beginning of the day.

Once at the end of the day.

Once at the end of every week.

These can be stored in different locations, so you always have multiple backups to fall back on.

How is that?

Thanks Andy,

So now I have to think about FMserver, although I must admit that I have seen it on the cards for a while. It is meant to be the all singing and dancing version of filemaker.

If you mark deleted records and use the Goto Related Records(show) script step NOT a Find, the speed will be no problem (MUCH, MUCH, MUCH faster than a find). I think for even large files and immediate export is too much song and dance and can create more of a problem than the danger of deleting records. If you use relationships and not finds, the extra "deleted" records hidden in the backgound don't really slow the database to any significant degree.

-bd