The Separation Model

Hi, I have two files in my solution: one for interface and one for data. All scripts and layouts are in the interface file. Obviously, some of these scripts perform finds on data in the data file. And, more specifically, some of those find scripts perform finds on UNSTORED calcs in the data file. We are an all-Mac OSX company, and we have FM server running on a dedicated machine also running Mac OSX (not OSX Server) with 2g memory. We have about 30 users. The behavior that I am able to replicate is as follows: 1 - Launch the interface file. Perform a script (via a button) that performs a find on an unstored calc (with other find parameters as well). The find res…

To put the story short, I took over the upkeep and developer for our fmp database. Problem was, from the start, my boss built the database we use as he went. Lots of residual fields and tables and scripts that are still unused. Its a mess, and the worst kind of mess, one that would take months to fix. Only, we tried for the past few months to have me do what i can. I've reached the point where its so hard for me to fix these old issues because everything is a rats nest on the back end so to speak (Take a newbie to fmp, one with only moderate programming knowledge, and even less experience with user interfaces, and have him build your production database while it is i…

I have an application using GUI.fp7 and Data.fp7 and have encountered a usage case I don't understand. In Data.fp7 I orginally implemented a Value List called Letters containing "A", "B" and "C" as the allowable choices for a text field. And for a reason that I cannot recall, I ended up with an identical Letters value list defined in GUI.fp7 Regardless, everything worked fine until I wanted to add a "D" value. I did so in the GUI.fp7 but got a message saying "not an allowable choice" when clicking on it in a popup. So I went to the Data.fp7 and added "D". Again, everything was fine -- until I decided that I didn't need "D" after all. I removed it fr…

My application uses the simple separation model: GUI.fp7 + data.fp7 I'm trying to implement a scripted backup, but the file that is written out is the GUI -- and NOT THE DATA. Script step used: Save a Copy a ["$$Backup"; copy] . . . where $$Backup is the user-entered filepath How can I cause the data file to be backed up instead? There must be a simple way, but I haven't found it. Thanks for any help.

We are a parts company, we handle used high end storage equipment. My boss built the database in FMP7 2 years ago with minimal experience in FMP. We have currently 2 locations for inventory: Warehouse, and Main Building. There are two tables for inventory adjustments (moving from one to the other, and for orders) We have expanded into the UK with a new office that has a parts depot located in Manchester. We will have other warehouses as we continue to expand. I am thinking that the inventory adjustments should all be tracked in one table. (If we take 2 units from the warehouse and bring them here, instead of going to the warehouse tab, creating …

I have seen a bit about this, but really need something more in depth, and a small sample solution to tear into, to get it. Does anyone know of any papers, books, CDs, classes, etc on the separation model? Thanks!

We are a very small business, usually one of us in and one out of the office. Our client, appointments and project information is held on an FM 8.5 database, which runs on the main office machine and in runtime versions on each of our laptops. The office machine holds current data and the idea is to update the runtime versions when we go out on the road so I’ve been looking at the easiest and quickest way to do this without having to create a new runtime version each time the main database is updated. If I understand correctly (and I may not!), rather than the single file holding all layouts, scripts, tables etc. we have at present, I should be separating this i…

I know that FM7 supported the separation model but did FM6? I have a client who wants to revise her application and having the layers separate would be nice. She may eventually upgrade to FM8 but could I implement the separation model with her FM6 application?

...What are the advantages of splitting a database up into multiple files?....

I've been reading the posts on this topic and they are all very informative. I have a db that's getting large (at least large for us). We are planning on combining some nearby stores in the area into one "master" database. After having read some of the posts I'm starting to think the separation model may be a good option. There are a couple of things I don't quite understand though... (1) If these files are separted, do the both reside on the server side? The GUI file isn't on the local "c" drive, is it? How would you do a mass / instant update if it is (unless you do it the way someone described and just e-mail a new GUI file to everyone) (2) My busines…

Hi All I am trialling the separation model. I divided an existing file in 2, one for the client (layouts, scripts etc) and one for the server (only data). I created a file reference in the client file to access the data on the server and it all seems to work well. (Thanks for all the great posts in this forum!) For my current solutions I use an opener script to check the server's open and to correctly locate the remote file (also thanks to Forum advice). But it seems with the file reference set up you are not actually "opening" the external file. Therefore, what is the best practice for opening and closing solutions based on the separation model with …

ok im officially confused. trying to create data / ui seperation, only I cant work out where my table relationships should be, if i have them in the data file and remove all from ui, the ui just says 'table missing' all over it. However if i have it in the UI file I cant do lookup fields etc in the data file. What am i doing wrong, surely i dont have to match the relationship structure in both the ui and data file?? Cheers Ben

Hi guys, A bit of a weird question here, but i have 3 files and they work as follows: FrontEnd.fp7 | | SERVER | | Backend.fp7 (hosted through FMS) | | SecondaryBackend.fp7 (sits in same directory as Backend.fp7, not hosted) My question is, can Backend.fp7 interact with SecondaryBackend.fp7 with the local file reference: file:/SecondaryBackend.fp7 instead of requiring that the SecondaryBackend have a full fmnet reference to the server IP and be hosted. I.e. i don't want this file hosted, but i need backend.fp7 to be able to interact with it. If im not making myself clear, please tell me and i'll answer anything you want -- i sort of need to …

I have a large data file and several interface files, each with no tables of their own, but many layouts which reference the external data tables. I am having trouble navigating from a record in one interface file (Students) to a related record ("Advisor" in the Employees file) in a different interface file. 1) How can I apply GtRR if the interface file has no tables? 2) If I have a found set of say 10 records in the data file, how can I navigate to a layout in the interface file, maintaining the Sort Order, if possible? Thanks for any push you can offer! DSW

Hi, I've written a programm for a school. The application has 3 GUI-files and 8 data-files. The Installation is in FM7, server is standard edition, clients are FMPro. For now the clients only hold a startfile that points to the central login of the main GUI-file on the server. Everything else is left on the server. For the time being performance is acceptable. Updating the solution is done by the schools admin: stop the server, swap the GUI-files, start server, done, a minute-job... Now I'm thinking about distributing the GUI-files to the clients machines to gain speed in the intranet and to limit some clients to simple data-input-capabilities by only giving them one …

im constructing a database that consists of some pretty large tables; contacts, products, orders and so on. before i get to deep ive got one fundamental question: how big is too big? what i mean by this is offcourse how much info should i put in one database, and when (and why) should i split it up into different files? whats the pros and cons by having one big database "COMPANY", with different tables called "people", "orders", "products", and so on, in view of having many different databases "PEOPLE", "ORDERS", "PRODUCTS" and then linking them all together? i know this is very different from time to time, but i just want some pointers to start me of in the r…

We've been using Filemaker 5/6 and have recently migrated to 7, and shortly hope to move to 8. Converting our existing database files has been pretty straightforward and everything has worked well, probably because the conversion process has added extra script steps as needed. We are now starting to develop new databases to link into existing ones, and are running into problems with the Go to Related record step. In FMP6, we would use the old GTRR command, then call an external call in the relevant database to set up the window to the correct size and with the status area hidden or shown as appropriate. In FMP7, this all changes and it seems that you have to se…

I have around 5 clients, all on similar solutions. The solution itself is split two way, front end (referencing backend) and backend on server. Rather than having to modify five different files if i want to do an update or bug fix, i'd want to manipulate only one. Now, each of these servers, have a different ip: i.e. 192.168.110.10 vs. 192.168.10.1 vs. 192.168.0.1 etc. If i list these 5 references (and possibly anywhere up to 30) are there going to be any adverse effects, i.e. extra delays on startup? Cheers, ~Genx

Hello - Being new to FM7, but having used Access in the past (a long time ago!), I need a bit of help. I am creating a DB of contacts and Follow-up and I have so many fields that I decided to divide the fields in two, putting all the contact and sales info in one table, and all the historic and monetary info in another. Only now, while I can enter info in the main table, I cannot enter info in Table2. In both tables I put the field 'client name', which I have linked together. Obviously this is not enough. Can someone tell me in a very easy way how I am supposed to make this work? Or should I never have divided the tables up? I seemed to recall in access tha…

How do I actually seperate the data? I want to be able to add forms and reports without losing data or having to import/export.

Scenario: We have a single table database consisting of six fields, Job name Project Manager Building Address Job Number Superintendent Serial Number (self entering Serial Number) We populated it with 3 records and then copied over a table from another single table database. These six same fields are in that table with the relational field being Serial. The information however will not populate. If we go to the relationship and change its type to ‘X’ (match all) instead of ‘=’ it will populate with the first record, but we are unable to scroll through the related records. I know there is a discrepancy being the records do not match up. When you add…

Have moved post to runtime section, sorry all. Please ignore

[color:blue]Hi ! Case (FM8) [color:purple]Backend file: local Win-PC [color:purple]Frontend-1 file: local, same dir with Backend [color:purple]Frontend-2 file: set on a network Win-PC (peer-to-peer) Problem: [color:purple]Local Frontend-1 file: no problem opening and reading data from the Backend [color:purple]Network Frontend-2 file: always brings up the "Not Found" dialog when opened & gives the choice to browse for file. Clicking "Remote", the Backend file is shown and when selected works fine. Once the Frontend-2 is closed and re-opened, the problem is re-born! Checked Backend file is set to network use "On" & users privilleges set. …

calc field help. Can somebody help me? thanks for your support. Ann DATA.zip

Have any features been added to version 8 which will facilitate the separation of a solution into separate data and interface/logic files? I'm basically rebuilding a partially implemented project in version 8 and so far have a file with only the required data tables and one basic layout for each table. Without interface and scripting, now seems the time to separate if I'm going to. Also, can someone point me to a sample file or set of documentation that describes the current "best practices" for the separation model? Right now I don't know what to do with the relationship graph, globals, and calculated fields. This will be a standalone solution, so I don't have…

I have separated into a UI and Data File, and it works great! One of the goals is to permit upgrading my solution without my users having to import data. So let's say I need to add a field to the DB. I can't add it to the UI. How do I add it to the Data file without my user losing his data? Does this also work with a stand-alone solution? Thanks...

I have a value list field called "Project Status" that has various values ("Graphic Dev", "At Customer", "Prepress", etc). I would like to track when this field changes and the time it's in each status or value. Id like the data to look something like this... Graphic Dev: 3 hrs At Customer: 48 hrs Graphic Dev 2 hrs At Customer: 24hrs Prepress: 3 hrs Is this possible? Any suggestions are much appreciated! Tom

Hi Maybe I'm missing something obvious but I can't figure out an easy way to capture a table name in a calc or function. I really want a Get(tablename) function that returns the table you are in when you run a script or a get(fieldtablename) that returns the table of a specified field. I have tried get(activefieldtablename) but this only gets the correct value when you edit a field in the same file that holds the field/table, it does not work if you seperate the data and interface into 2 files. I have wondered if this behaviour with get(activefieldtablename) is a bug because the get(activefieldname) works in the way you would expect in this situation. Any Ideas…

Is there anyway to check if a file reference is available? The reason i ask is that my solution is hosted on a wireless network that might crash once every couple of hours. Point is, the front end stays on-line and the back-end crashes. I want to be able to "re-connect" to the back-end file reference or at least re-open the front end which does the re-connecting for me, on the condition that the file thats referenced isn't available. Cheers, ~Genx

I am really hoping that this seemingly simple situation can be resolved in FM8 Advanced. Keep in mind that this has to be a runtime! I am working on an application where in one database I am required to have a looping script to parse constantly incoming data into a table. Thereby causing no user from being able to interact with the data being imported and parsed. So, what I need to happen is for this dbase to export the data to an external table. However, the "export records" script step in Scriptmaker will only overwrite previously exported data, with no way to append the data to an existing dbase. What I have working from WITHIN Filemaker, is that I execute …

I use the seperation model within a single file with anterface table. My first big foray into building something big in 7/8 and I have a situation like this. Interface Table(I) to Account Table(A) to Client Table© to Client Info Table(CI) (this is highly simplified but suffice to say the normalization cascades far further past the Client Info Table) So I setup my relationships as a such: I::New to A::New, A::New to C::New, C::ID to CI:C sub ID (All these relationships have allow creation of related records turned.) So I set I::New to "New" and then set field A::New to I::New (new record created because it's unique and pushed to destination match field…

I think this is the right forum for this query. I have both mac and pc's access a server, from a small FM database on each individual machine that when opened opens the 'proper' database on our server. When they 'log out' it should automatically go back to this local file. The problem I have is that I can't find a location on a mac where I can install a file that is the same place for all users i.e. for a PC it is easy filewin:/C:/Documents and Settings/All Users/Desktop/***.fp7 but for a mac it is filemac:/Macintosh HD/Applications/FileMaker Pro 8/***.fp7 but the problem is that people rename their hard disks! Can somebody help me…

Alo, I intend to lock a record but I cant figure out how to do it. I have a table with contracts that after a while they prescribe, and I pretend to lock them. Can someone help me please Thank you

I have a sep model based as follows GUI Client data (normal data) Client Calcs (calcs for the above clients) Product Sales (sales data for each client) Each is related to the other via a customer id. Have created a script in each file to create a new client based on a serial number, each are in sync with each other. A script is run in the gui file on a Client layout createing a new record and then runs the script in the calc file and the procut sales file. The records are being created but not updated via the relationship, so when i go to enter details into a field from product sales or client calcs i cant input data. if i open the file manu…

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone would care to share the methods they use to populate their logic file to assure that there is always a record with matching ID to the data. Also, I am tinkering with the idea of a viewer that would dynamically assign the ID's to the logic file based on the current data record being viewed (the idea being that you would only need a small fraction of the number of data records in the logic file). I have not had much success on this so far, and was wondering if anyone else had tried this approach. Cheers, -Raz

Hi, all - So, I created separate data and interface files, as suggested by someone in another thread here awhile back. I've now discovered that I need to add a field (and a relationship) to my DB. When I make the change in the data file, I see that the change isn't automatically reflected in my interface file. What do I need to do to make this happen? Thanks...

I should probably have this one, but cannot get it. I have a large data file (DAT). I have an interface file (INT) with many reports (and no tables) which uses the external DAT as its datasource: same number of records. If I am in DAT with a given found set, how can I navigate quickly to the same found set in INT? I had envisioned using GTRR, but there is no relationship between the two files. As a bonus, is it possible to preserve Sort order? Thanks in advance! DSW

Perhaps this note should go into the Left Brain forum, but ... I've been working with a Separation Model (SM) app for almost a year now, and I am currently re-examining it from the perspective of managing changes in the backend datafile. As has been noted recently in other threads here, the advantages of the SM apparently lessen if the need to change the back end data structure happens very often. Going back further, there were threads that discussed separating data, interface, and business rules (BR) into three elements. In my situation, I chose not to apply the BR portion of the model, since: a) it seemed like it would require substantial re-thinkin…

Hi all, I am at the very beginning of this concept, but thought I would put it out there in the brain pool and see if anyone else had tinkered with it: I really like the idea of a BusinessLogic file, but have not seen or come up with any implementations of it that I find practical or useful. I recently had a thought that might be productive in this endeavor. The idea is to have the BL file be a single record with scores of global text fields. I would still have most calcs in the datafile, but each calc would only be something like: evaluate(BL::gText1; [ModificationDateTimeStamp]) The idea being a developer could update, alter, or add calculatio…

At the risk of being redundant, repetitive, and repetitious: Given a two file Separation Model, with a layout in UI that displays fields from a table in Data. When adding fields to different copies of the Data file, the creation order and the number of fields created must be exactly identical for the fields to function/display properly in the UI file. Why? Internally, FileMaker's field references are unique serial #s, much like the serial #s used for primary keys. When a field is put on a layout, FileMaker internally stores the field's serial # with the layout's info. In a multi-file solution, these serial #s may end up referring to different fields if o…

Hi - I recently broke a small DB into separate files. On my development system, a Mac, all went fine. When I moved it over to the target platform (Windows XP), however, FM Pro requires the user to log into *both* the interface and the data files. Is this expected behavior? If not, what might I have done wrong? Thanks... mz

I'm apparently missing something about converting an existing system to the SM. Copying the existing combined files and referencing them from the files that will become interface only, is easy. But all the layouts continue to reference fields in the original file. Using Layout Setup to reference the new data-only file doesn't change these existing layout references. Changing them all by hand is very time consuming. Is there a trick I'm missing?

I've almost finished building a new FileMaker 8 system in a single table (but of course with many TO's). I've used the conventional method of building, i.e. put graphics data and scripts all in a single file. My question is, has anyone successfully built a system this way and then split it to Interface and data files. I was at an FSA a meeting and one of the guest speakers said that there was a white paper that illustrated how to do this, but I cant seem to find this on FileMakers website. It might be a resource on one of the Partner level developers site, but I have no idea where to look. Has anyone I know its not the best scenario, as I should have originally desi…

I develop a standalone runtime DB consisting of 2 main parts: DB & Interface (the mentioned FM separation model/aapproach). I'm going to use the Inno Setup installer (of course because it's free). But there's a problem: AFAIUI if a user reinstalls my product (a usual solution if there're any fails/doubts with programs), this installer will rewrite (delete) the active DB file (with the user's data) !? What to do? To create, f.ex., database.fm7, to rename it into, f.x., database.initial and the users should rename it themselves back into database.fm7 after installing the program. Then after reinstalling the active DB file (database.fm7) won't be er…

I can't seem to find out exactly how to seperate the data from the rest so I can do updates without the end user losing any data. Any advice?? :bang:

Are there any sample files using FM8 posted on this forum that show how the Separation Model should function? Thanks EJ

Im working on my first real FileMaker Pro 8 application, and I thought I may as well gain some experience seperating the files. At the moment my setup consists of 2 files. 1) MIS which contains (DATA + GUI) 2) Report All my scripts and data are stored in the first file, the second file only has a file reference to the MIS file and the relevant reports built out of the TOS and relationships that I need. My question is, I need to from the MIS file, add a print report script step. The way I usually do this is to use the GTRR, which takes me to the layouts that I need. However I cant seem to figure out, how to externally display the related records in my r…

Many people have asked if anyone has an example of a large scale implementation of the Seperation Model...so, I thought I would post information about our setup, and also ask for some feed back. We have a solution using the seperatin model with 6 total files. 1 Interface File, and 5 Data Files. Our Data files total to 162 tables, with the highest number of records for a table over 2 Million. Our Interface File contains 552 Relationships, 666 Layouts, 353 Value Lists, 30 Custom Functions, and 27 File References. So, its a big solution desined to run up to 150 users at a time. However, we recently ran a load test, and after 50 users, the server's CPU was …

All, My separated DB currently involves 2 files - "Data" & "Interface". The "Interface" file currently contains layouts for printed documents/forms. I'm planning on extracting these layouts into a new file "Forms". The intention being that this file can easily be updated or easily subtituted for different Clients. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. I imagine a great deal of scripting is involved. C

ok, hello to all. I'm in the planning stages of a database at the moment, but I've hit something of a quandry. Here's what I'm trying to do: create an FM8 database that I can make a few copies of and give to different people. That part is all ok (for now), but the problem I've come up against, is what happens if I want to revise the structure, add new fields and/or tables? How do I then propogate those changes to people who are already using it? The only way I can see to do it right now is to just use the import/export function for each table, but this seems needlessly timeconsuming. Reading through some of the messages in this forum, it seems to me that the "separ…

I've been using FM for a billion years now, ever since Filemaker 2.0. I've evolved my approach and and technique as FM has evolved as well. In recent years i've also gained a fairly good understanding of other DB environments (sql etc) So here I sit performing a conversion project for a client from FM5 to FM8. I'm muckin around with 14 tables and over 1000 fields. (Yes there is definately room for more separation) And the though strikes me as I'm looking at some of the relationships in this solution: Does anyone out there have a preferred naming convention for relationships? Im kinda adopting this strategy: TABLENAME1|TABLENAME2~keyname as th…

Is there a way to find all instances where data from a referenced file is used, i.e. which scripts, which layouts, which calculated fields, etc?

Hi all, can somebody please help me out? I would like to create a table which will have sort of links to different files like doc, xls, txt, jpeg etc. I would like to access these files from another table having different records. Each record, should be able to relate to a specific file in the first table mentioned above. Can somebody please help me to get a headstart? thanks, drb

Hi, I don't know if this is the right forum to ask, but here goes... I am going to create a new database that will be used at 4 separted sites (miles apart connected via T1 line). Currently, I have one site that works fine, but as I move into a multi-site situation I am not sure how to design it. They all use the EXACT same tables, however, I need to keep information separted by site. I am sort of new, so bare with me... option 1.. keep all records from all sites in one table. This way I don't have to make 4 separate tables for each site... but then how do I do reports and the like separately? Do I have to do it in a relational table design level or can the…

I am planning to build a new solution and was wondering if their are any features, tips or tricks in Filemaker 7 or 8 that will allow me build a single multiple table database solution in one file (front end) and a separate database file for all the data (back end). This way when I release upgrades only the front end solution file needs will need to be replaced. I sure this can be done with relationships but this solution will be a big one and consist of approx 30-40 tables and i equaly do not want to make the development too complex.

Can I make standalone databases for the Mac and Windows off of just my Mac? Can I make a standalone database that will work on both platforms? Thanks ahead of time

I am looking at a project that would possibly entail the necessity of SQL or Oracle in the Future. Currnetly Oracle is in use but the user is finding their Oracle based system too regimented. I know that regimented is a good thing in a certain way but it is not good in this case. The customer is not getting the full benefit of Oracle at the moment anyway. They have an abnormally low record count. Fewer high value complicated transactions. If they move away from Oracle and we create a Filemaker system for them would I be able to put in SQL or Oracle back end without any experience of such? I have my background in filemaker not in these other languages. The…

Hi, In my last app (a calender/booking system) I tried to separate the structure from the data, but failed. Everything is OK as a single user, but as soon as I hook up another user I get a portal lock. The UI main layout is a calender style layout with the rows representing times from 9 AM to 8 PM and the columns representing different rooms. All eight columns are portals. The default position when you start up is the 'today view' so all users will work with the same data (most of the time anyways). Is there anyone that has an idea how I can solve this problem? Cheers, Magnus

In a separation model

(Running FM7 Dev on XP) I'm creating a runtime ap for distribution to A LOT of different end-users at A LOT of different companies, all Windows based distributions. Plan on issuing product updates over time which would include additional fields, tables, calculation & GUI, but would not change any existing fields or calculations. In researching whether to separate the data from the application, "Using Filemaker 7 Special Edition" recommends a separation strategy in general (pg. 204), while "Filemaker 7 Bible" argues for keeping the data together due to potential issues with identifying the location of the datafile's filepaths on various systems. Which way is …

I made the separation model but we don´t understand how to manage the Instant Web Publishing because we need two Windows. When the application starts a script run another script for other file, but IWP don´t do it.

I don't know if this is the appropriate category or not... The database system we're designing uses a centralized Location File. The file contains a table that stores addresses. Other files use this centralized location file to store locations related to the file's own tables. The idea is that a user will be able to search for an address and find all references to it across the database system. For example, File A, B, and C all use the location file. The location file is searched for an address. When an address is found, it will then be easy to determine which file it belongs to and do whatever is needed... To make things more complicated, we have us…

I am trying to use the techniquess of Companies, Contacts & Details - Optimizing your data within my database. I have added all the fields to my database to interface my contacts and sites information. When I add my contacts and sites informaton into the appropriate fields the interface layer doesn't see any of the data. What an I missing here. I tried to have the interface table lookup the values but that option is not availibe. Do I need to add each record individuly?

Hi, I had this idea about seperation model that might be faster in most way and i wanted some opinions: The idea is to maintain seperation model GUI <-> DATA but instead of using a global/calculation field for portals, I will have the same tables in the GUI file as in the DATA file BUT with only the key field and the rest through the relationship. This way I get the following: 1 - when you have a search criteria including lots of fields, it is much easier to perform a find. 2 - no need for many complicated calculations and "mirror-like" fields 3 - easier maintanance 4 - more modular And: 1 - It is easy to sync because of the unique key per ta…

I want to seperate data and layouts so I can create new layouts without having to worry about modifying or importing data when I add new layouts. I'm using FMS7 Advanced Here's what I think the process is like: 1) Create all your data tables in some fp7 files. 2) Create Layout files 3) Create File References to needed data files in layout files. Q1) Do the data files need to be hosted by FMS, or just the layout files? The users should only be interfacing to the data through the layout files, but I'm not sure if the data file references MUST be through the server in order to make them multiuser. Q2) Do the relationships…

I have separated my application into UI files and data files. When the first user opens the main UI file and on startup that UI file opens all other UI files, does that user automatically become host to all the UI files and data files?

Does anybody have any advice on performance penalities using the Seraration Model? The database I am thinking about has about 80 files/tables with around 50,000 records in some of the tables. It has very complex relationships, this is a database which has been converted from FM 6. I intend to combine the files/tables into one file, this should relieve some of the overhead of the complex relationships. Thank you. Garry

With the separation model, what is the approach to security in the data files? Specifically restricting access to particular fields? Toffler

So far, I've split an existing application into 2 layers ... 1) data (more or less one file per table, but as I normalize further, I will break some tables into several tables in the same file) and 2) UI (one per major user function.) However, I have some common scripts which at the moment are duplicated in each UI. Would it make sense to create a separate file to contain these? (One possibility would be to combine them with the Global data file I created with all of the global fields.)

For the past year, I've been developing a rather complex system for my employer. They didn't have a very good idea of what they wanted, so development has been a bit trial and error (typical small business issues). I now find myself with a rather complicated system (nearly 50 tables...yikes, I know!) that's a bit sluggish. It's not unbearable, but it could definitely be better. It's being served from a PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8 with 1+ GB of RAM. We don't have a lot of simultaneous users - maybe 10 on a heavy day. I'm considering separating the system and was hoping to get some feedback re: speed. Once separated, can each user have a copy of the GUI file on his/…

Don't know if you've discussed this - but I'm part of a group of developers building a rather large solution using the separation model. We frequently use global fields to affect many dynamic interface issues. When global fields are pulled over through a non-native TOC rather than being native to the file you're working in - refresh becomes a serious issue. You can kick it and spank it - but ya can't get it to fresh. Similarly - when trying to use dynamic value lists - the content of the initial field does not refresh quickly enough if its from a non-native TOC. bleh!

Hi All, I think i missed the basics in "separation model"... My goal was to have a User Interface file (UI) and a Data file. I wanted to put a UI file on each user's computer all pointing to the same Data file... Because of my design (perhaps faulty design) my data file has a few calculated fields that test a condition that uses a field that resides in a system table in the UI file. When installing the UI file on different computers it seems that I must manually re-establish the link between UI & Data file by using the Menu choice "Define...File Refs.." THAT'S NOT TOO BAD - I can live with it, unless there is a better way? The problem i also have, is …

Hello I have 3 databases called: Relations.fp5 -> using a extra database contactpersons.fp5 Orders.fp5 -> using 2 other databases Invoices.fp5 -> using 1 other database Now I am rebuilding my solutions in FMP7, but what is wise to do. Combine my multiple databases in one database using tables. Or Keep the databases separated and use only tables for the direct linked databases like: Relations.fp5 gets a table called Contactpersons.fp5 Are there any rules about how to use tables within FMP7? What is the limit? Greetings Jukkie

Hi All. I'm developing a payroll system that imports data from large governmental agencies, extracts the useful info and works with that. The Raw Import data is quite large (about 20MB/month), whereas the resulting normalized data is much smaller (under 1MB/month). For auditing reasons, I'd like to keep all the data online. However, I'm trying to decide whether to keep the Raw Import data table in the main file, or in a separate file. I like the simplicity of the one-file design in terms of backups, managing user accounts ,etc. However, I'm concerned with performance and stability issues. I'd like this solution to handle at least 30 years of data (whic…

I just got a version of FMP 7 and started poking around. I've used version 5 for quite a while and have a pretty good handle on it but version 7 presents some new features that I find a bit odd, like tables. Being a SQL guy I understand the concept behind SQL tables quite well and stored procedures are quite familiar for me. What I dont understand at first glance is the relative difference between tables and files in FMP 7. For instance, if I define a database with several tables in it and link them, what is the difference between that and creating files and then defining relationships between files? i.e. If I create a database table of Items and then create a cost t…

Hi, I'm developing a little solution with two different types of users, I call them users and admins. I very much like the idea of the separation modell, so I'm about to apply it to my solution. While there are two rather different user groups I was thinking that I might create two sets of BR and GUI layers/files, which makes a total of 5 files (1 data, 2 BR, 2 GUI). My idea was that the interface for the user would be much lighter if it did not contain the BR for the admin. (It might aswell be possible for a user-user to connect via WAN wich would be great). So far so good I thought. But it looks like the user-GUI has to interact with the admin-BR (e.…

Hi, I am trying to take one database which has one ID with multiple records and combine the information of a field in those multiple records into another database into a single record. example: Database Contacts has the following fields: ID Name etc... Database Applications has the following fields ID Applications etc... Under applications the same ID is a separate record for each application listed. I want to match the application ID to the contact database ID and list all of the applications entries for that name into one field. How the heck do you do this??? Thank you!! [email protected]

Hopefully, this is a simple one. Thanks in advance for any tips. Simplifying, I have a data table called BIO which contains many records and a large number of biographical fields. Records can contain one or more entries in a Category field (i.e. Student, Faculty, Parent, etc.) My Interface table has a large number of layouts which are useful for viewing biographical data from each category. My TO to the BIO table happily populates the layouts with ALL records in BIO. It would be extremely useful if I could Toggle between SUBSETS of BIO records. In this way, I would not have to have multiple copies of the layouts. Is there a way to have such a "Dynamic …

Possibly a really dumb question: How do I add a record to a file when I am using different files for the UI and data files? I don't seem to be able to do the insert from the UI because the New Record/Request does not allow me to specify the file name. Is there another script instruction that permits me to do this?

Not sure if this is a separation model question or a find question, but here goes... I'm doing some filemaker work after being away from it for several years. It used to be that if you wanted to perform a find in a related table, you had to write a script in the related table and use 'perform script' to execute the find in the related table. I'm trying to write a script that changes the found set in a related table without having to write scripts in that related table, but it doesn't seem to work. I've created file references and relationships between the two files and created a one line script in the 2nd file that searches for a particular invoice num…

win xp pro, fm dev 7 I installed a new hard drive and emailed my interface and data files ( 2 .fp7 files) to myself, then downloaded themn and placed them in the same folder. But when I open one, it doesn't find the other! Even when the search window opens, and I pick the correct companion file, the interface file opens with all the fields saying "<file not found>" Also going into the relationship graph ( which is kept in the interface file with objects mapped to data files from the other .fm7 file) al the diagram boxes also say "file not found" Yecch.

I have a database with 3 files. 1 is called Datafiles. Its the database with all the products. There is another called Collection that shows what the user has in their inventory. The third is called browser. Its the go between and interface that the user uses. I chose this model so I can make updates to the browser without any complications of losing the data in Collection. The problem I'm running into is trying to get the data (single record) from Datafiles into Colleciton. I'd like to create a script that can be triggered by a button in browser. When I originally started this, Collection was part of Browser. When I realized the problems that would cause I spli…

Where do I start... I want to keep data seperate from UI. I have a Purchase Order solution that worked on FM5 as follows. Header (file contained POnumber etc..) - linked to LineItem on POnumber LineItem (file contains info for each PO lines) etc.. Now if I want this data in one file (say DATA_Module) and want to create a UI_Module file for all the layouts, how do i link to my POnumber from the new UI file?? In the older version i just had a layout (based on the Header file) with my fields and I would just enter the new POnumber & off I go!! Now I'm not sure what to base my layout on since the fields I want are in another file. Thanks …

I am looking for some good ideas about how to handle the 'Go to related record' when using modules based in the separation model. My problem is that I have a CRM System which has a data and interface file and that I have a studio system that has an data and interface file. All has been going well with development until I want to link a client to a studio record and use a button to link back to the client record. What happens when you use the 'go to related record' is that it goes to the data file and while I could load this file with scripts to seach and display this record in the interface file, I would rather not if there was another way to do this??? I have tried the w…

I'm going to rebuild a solution that was originally built in FM6 to a FM7 solution. I really like the idea about the separation model. Mostly because of the ease of updates. I'm distributing the same solution to several different customers, and when something needs to be done, it needs to be done so many times. I'm kind of new to the separation thinking, but I have a structural question. Is it a good idea to have a separate "interface" layer? I mean, with no scripts (or as few as possible) and of course no data. The idea is to be able to make customer specific changes to layouts etc, which is not affected by an update of the "buissness" layer. Do you get the idea…

If the purpose of separation is to keep the data in one place and the 'business' in another, where do you put the calculations? The usual FM model is in calculated fields, but that would (most simply) stick them right in the middle of the data tables, which runs against the model. Maintaining related tables in the business end just to hold calculations seems rather messy. Can user-defined functions deal with this, perhaps?

After setting up my separation model (interface, business, data) I now get an error message when trying to delete data file records (directly from a data file layout): ("This operation cannot be performed because one or more of the relationships between these tables are invalid.") I have checked all relationships for proper delete rights - to no avail. My interface file has 0 records, just layouts, scripts etc., my business file has calcs and globals. Doubtless I am overlooking something simple, but any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Having thought of data separation, and noticing it is a hot topic now, just a thought for what it's worth. Data separation is a good thing, but it can be complex. It solves problems (data import after upgrading for example) but creates other problems to solve, too. My thought is, that if a database is relatively simple, and not too huge, you might think of a semi-solution. That is, that the main operations are executed on the main file (and perhaps some related files), just as you were used to without data separation. Extra though, is the built in option, to scripted export and import of data from the main file to a backup-data file (related of course), fully controll…

As I understand it, calculations belong in the BR file. One exception seems to be the explode calc field. I often use a match field for portals that is a calculation based on getting the first, second, third.. (up to 6'th) letter of the first, second and third words of a text field thus allowing the user to find the desired data without scrolling down a very long list. This works just fine in the non-seperated design but with separation, a calculation in one file based on a related field cannot be indexed, making it impossible to use as a match field. So, it needs to stay with the data. Am I barking up the right tree? I guess I need a lot of hand holding with "sep…

Is there any negative consequence to putting the globals (used for match field in the main TO, temp fields, navigation, et cetera) in the UI. I don't perceive of any but pose this question now to avoid any frustrations later. Keeping them (and calc fields based on them) in the UI file instead of the BR file alows for segregation and easier scripting (just a tad easier) but more importantly, makes them update without needing a refresh script.

In the separation model, where do the different types of value lists reside. I suspect the static, developer defined VL's and those from field values would be in the UI. What about the user defined VL's? Would they defined in the Data file and referenced through the UI? (One small step toward separation, one giant leap for dramamine.)

We are rebuilding our vertical market solution which was 32 files in v4/5/6. Will probably have 50+ tables in v7 when properly designed. No need for separate interface files. Solution is bound and put into an installer for 'shrink-wrap' distribution. Have shipped about 1 upgrade per year for 4 years, always with a built-in 'update wizard' written in FMP and using Troi-File for the behind the scenes file movement. Data imports would take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on machine speed and dataset size. I have been learning the new relationship model for 7 and the only actual advantage I see for us splitting into more than 1 program file is the promise o…

[Over a weekend, I created a High School Progress Report program. It simply takes a record of student-class(teacher) and adds a comment field. It navigates to the record by teacher, then class and the teacher can scroll thru class, student by student adding comments. Comments are then printed by student.] The principal loved it, and disregarding advice, demanded it be implemented in 4 days. No testing. UI was in one file - data in another - in Server 7. Teachers accessed it thru RDC. Day one - comments started disappearing. Gone. Not all of them. Day two - I did the following - all at once: 1) Changed script that navigates student to Flush Cache at every cha…

I have a project which basically involves two stages of operation: The Import & Cleanup stage, and then the Daily Use / Reports stage. The Import & Cleanup stage has a terrible mess of relationships -- because we get non-normalized data from another agency without proper unique keys, we have do to all sorts of fancy fuzzy matching to get proper primary keys on the data. For example, I have a "worker" table and a "payroll" table that are related by ID, then by Last Name, then by Last Name + First Name, then by Last Name + Department, etc. This happens for 4 sets of tables, so the relationship graph is a mess. However, once the import and cleanup step i…

Never mind. As I was writing my description of my dilema about why my data fields were labeled as unrelated in the UI file I realized I forgot to set the layout to display the appropriate TO. Problem soloved. And so the learning process goes on. PS how do you delete a post once you start and then find out you're a schmuck?

My database has nothing to do with numbers or prices. It basicly gathers text data for clients and displays related texts. No need for reports or summary fields. Lots of relationhips to relate the different types of text. I am considering separtation as follows and am writing this to see if I got it right: Ui file with scripts, relationships and the only fields are those that act as the match fields for the relationships to other files and data file (eg clinet number), and the Data file with lost of fields, value lists, calc fields. I guess tha calc fields could be in the UI (eg: expressing the digit only number field for phone as (AC) XXX-XXXX format...) could b…

I have start planning and designing a Database ( i'm new to FMP). The main purpose of that database is to keep track of specific infos of every shot on a Visual effects project. Each shots have is own record with multiple layouts to see the different data related to that shot. Now i have multiple projects that each have multiple shots. I think i should create a Table where every record will be a specific project and the fields should content some major Variables that will affect the table where each shot are enter in. Now, How can a link a record In My "project Database" to specificly affect the database that have all the records of shots related to that "…

I have completed a demo of Many To Many relationship using the separation model described by Collen Hammersley and Wendy T. King in Migration Foundations and Methodologies. There are 3 files: (1)Data, (2)Business Rules & Reports and (3) Interface. Data has 3 tables, Business Rules has 4 tables and Interface has no tables. The fourth table in Business Rules is Globals. I use the Troi Text Plug-in in this database. It will not run if you do not have the plug-in installed. I use this plug-in to maintain the uniqueness of the records in the join tables. The plug-in is available at http://www.troi.com. I am looking forward to your comments and suggestion…

Is there any way to script the "Define File References" dialog (other than just opening it up)? I've searched the forums and looked into as many plug-ins as I could find, but I haven't found the answer. Perhaps I'm just blind. For all three of you who would like to know WHY I would ask such a silly question... I'm trying to get my head around the fundamental architecture of a multi-user, separated db solution. For absolutely no good reason in particular I'd like to separate the "data" file further, into individual data files on a per project basis (an individual user will be tracking similar data across multiple projects). The trick is that I'd like the soluti…

I'm in the conceptual stages on a new project that will ultimately be a vertical market app deployed to hundreds of sites. This is an upgrade from an existing solution done in fmp5.5 that entailed over 30 files. The million dollar question seems to be how best to set up your file structure. So much flexibility is now available for us that we can put our tables almost anywhere, so now the big question is how best to make the file structure chosen give you the features you want without adding more development complexity than is needed. In my eyes the true value of a proper data separation model is the portability of the non-data files (interface, logic, utilities,…